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[jrobbins]

Hello, using MC26 on an i7 server. Bel Canto Streamer set as DLNA device. Playback of audio working fine.

In Media Network access to DSP Studio, I have convolution filters and Home Audio Fidelity’s Room Shaper VST enabled. Set for both to process independent of internal volume. 

But, I can tell by the sound that neither is working. I’ve rebooted MC26 multiple times but to no avail. What am I off on here?  Thanks. JCR

[JimH]

No idea.  Sorry.

Try a search here for "DSP over DLNA".

[jrobbins]

Hmm, JimH, there is an entire topic stream in Interact here at the top called DLNA and DSP. Almost all relates to MC22 and older. The concerns were either like mine, that DSP processing doesn’t occur over DLNA, which of course is what JRiver specifically purports to offer, or that playback over DLNA isn’t gapless (apparently fixed around MC23).

Don’t others on this forum use a streamer over DLNA and apply DSP to the playback through JRiver?  I’m shocked that there’s such a dearth of commentary or solutions from all. JCR

[JimH]

I'm sorry, but I can't help.  Maybe someone else can.

[jrobbins]

I’m just saying that I know the convolution filters are good because they do work in Roon. But, I want them to work in MC26. JCR 

[JimH]

It would be good to test without DLNA.  Just to be sure it works at all.

[jrobbins]

Using a USB connected DAC and DSP Studio under Tools/Options/Settings, both convolution filters and Room Shaper are working fine. So, this is a strictly a problem with JRiver’s DSP engine over DLNA. Further thoughts?  JCR

[JimH]

Try without the VST.

Then try without the convolution.

[jrobbins]

Doesn’t work for either one that way. I should also note that Output Format (downconverting  files over 192000 to that or 176400) doesn’t work in DLNA. JCR

[JimH]

Are you sure you're using the right DLNA server?

[jrobbins]

Yes, it plays audio out just fine. Absolutely, it’s my Bel Canto streamer. When I go into Media Network, I specifically select the Bel Canto unit for the DSP Studio. JCR

[jrobbins]

Jim, here are two screenshots of MC26 playing the same track — one over DLNA on the Bel Canto, and one via USB ASIO, being my multichannel DAC. As you can see, convolution and Room Shaper both function for the USB DAC, but not for the DLNA one. JCR

[JimH]

Not the Renderer.  The DLNA Server.  You can have multiple Servers under Media Network.  DSP can be different for each.

[jrobbins]

Not sure what you are saying, Jim. USB works, DLNA does not. What should I do?  JCR

[JimH]

Read about DLNA Servers in the first post of this thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92801.msg639187.html#msg639187

[bob]

Note that each DLNA server you configure in MC can have it's own DSP studio settings. They are NOT related to the DSP studio settings for local playback.
Look in your DLNA server configuration.
Also note that you must set the format to be served to one of the PCM formats because the only way the effects can be applied is if the material to be played is decoded.

[jrobbins]

Completely understood, Bob.  Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio.  That’s the way I’ve been doing it.  See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR

[bob]

Completely understood, Bob.  Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio.  That’s the way I’ve been doing it.  See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR

Looks good assuming you are using that server.
We'll setup a test and look at it next week.

[jrobbins]

Excellent, thanks in advance for the help, Bob. JCR

[jrobbins]

Bob, what kind of test did you have in mind?  JCR

[jrobbins]

Bob, checking in again here.

Everyone at JRiver stay healthy!  JCR

[jrobbins]

Hi Bob. Looking for your assistance again here. Thanks. JCR

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm running into the exact same issue. Trying to get a convolution filter to work on audio sent from MC as the UPnP/DLNA server. No dice.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here is the audio path information for local playback and DLNA playback. Same convolution filter selected in the DSP area. I also included a screenshot of the DSP section for my DLNA server. I only have a single one configured. I notice it says not valid, but that happens in the local DSP section as well until I start playing something.

[Matt]

I just tried to debug this.  I setup a zone, configured it to use Convolution, set my ID to play from that zone, and when I played I could watch the debugger coming to the Convolution code no problem.  So for me it seems to be working.

Can you think of anything else that might be special we should test?

Thanks.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I just tried to debug this.  I setup a zone, configured it to use Convolution, set my ID to play from that zone, and when I played I could watch the debugger coming to the Convolution code no problem.  So for me it seems to be working.

Can you think of anything else that might be special we should test?

Thanks.

I'm sitting at my PC and trying to send audio to an Ethernet connected DAC. Can you try such a combination?

[Matt]

I'll add this logging statement to the next build:
CConvolutionDSPPlugin::Process

It will say either:
Convolution applied
or
Convolution not applied

If it doesn't output at all, we've got a different problem.

Thanks for the help.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'll add this logging statement to the next build:
CConvolutionDSPPlugin::Process

It will say either:
Convolution applied
or
Convolution not applied

If it doesn't output at all, we've got a different problem.

Thanks for the help.

Excellent.

[Matt]

Just sent you an email.

[jrobbins]

Matt, as you can note above, I have the same problem as Chris. My screenshots show a USB DAC successfully using convolution and my Bel Canto Streamer not being successful. Will you kindly include me in the offline testing as well?  jrobbins50 at gmail. Thanks. JCR 

[bob]

Matt, as you can note above, I have the same problem as Chris. My screenshots show a USB DAC successfully using convolution and my Bel Canto Streamer not being successful. Will you kindly include me in the offline testing as well?  jrobbins50 at gmail. Thanks. JCR

What Matt and Chris discovered is that the engine IS being used for DLNA devices BUT you won't see that on the Audio Path info since that's not used when playing to remote Zones.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Bob is correct. I was testing MC's convolution filter for DLNA zones and using a DAC that wasn't connected to any analog outputs. Once testing was complete, I would move to a fully operational system. During my testing it appeared that MC wasn't applying the convolution filter because it said the MC audio engine wasn't in use and the audio path was empty as opposed to when using a local zone.

Matt had me log what was going on and there I could see that indeed the convolution was being applied. I moved this to my main system and certainly could hear the benefits of the convolution filter.

That said, given that MC is using its convolution engine for playback, it's my belief that this should be indicated in the audio path window for DLNA zones. Just my two cents.

Thanks Matt and Bob!

[isiora]

Completely understood, Bob.  Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio.  That’s the way I’ve been doing it.  See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR

Hi, I have similar issue with my DAC (DLNA renderer). As you can see in the attached picture, I cannot set even a simple equalizer.

Did I miss something?

[bob]

Hi, I have similar issue with my DAC (DLNA renderer). As you can see in the attached picture, I cannot set even a simple equalizer.

Did I miss something?

It looks like you are setting it.
I've done this many times and the EQ is the easiest one to prove it's working. Just try some outrageous setting.

[isiora]

Hi Bob,

no, unfortunately no. I have set it, while playing, and it's not working. See the message "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing". Playback is not stopped, so it seems that it asserts that 'current playback doesn't support processing'.
I have tried many combinations. I also tried setting it up, closing jriver, restarting, and nothing, no results.

thanks in advance,
Isidoro

[isiora]

It looks like you are setting it.
I've done this many times and the EQ is the easiest one to prove it's working. Just try some outrageous setting.

Hi Bob,

Could you help me? I don't know what to do to resolve the issue anymore. The EQ, or any other dsp filter, is not applied.

Isidoro

[bob]

Hi Bob,

no, unfortunately no. I have set it, while playing, and it's not working. See the message "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing". Playback is not stopped, so it seems that it asserts that 'current playback doesn't support processing'.
I have tried many combinations. I also tried setting it up, closing jriver, restarting, and nothing, no results.

thanks in advance,
Isidoro

That message is NOT applicable to DLNA, you CAN'T see the processing that's being done in that information window!

You might want to wait until the next build, we are hooking up the audio processing information so that what's happening will be shown for DLNA zones as well.

[isiora]

That message is NOT applicable to DLNA, you CAN'T see the processing that's being done in that information window!

You might want to wait until the next build, we are hooking up the audio processing information so that what's happening will be shown for DLNA zones as well.

Hi Bob,

I see the message selecting Media Network -> Add or configure DLNA servers -> Advanced -> DSP studio. So, are you saying that that message is not DLNA related?
Anyway the EQ is not working. No audible effect. Can you confirm that it shouldn't be this way?

Thank you,
Isidoro

[bob]

Hi Bob,

I see the message selecting Media Network -> Add or configure DLNA servers -> Advanced -> DSP studio. So, are you saying that that message is not DLNA related?
Anyway the EQ is not working. No audible effect. Can you confirm that it shouldn't be this way?

Thank you,
Isidoro

The CONFIGURATION for the EQ under the DLNA server options is correct.
You MUST also choose "specified output format" for the audio option and choose a format your device can play.

That said, with current builds you WILL HAVE NO INDICATION that the DSP is being applied to a DLNA output stream.

You will need to wait until the next release to see that processing reflected in the audiopath information (by the gear).

[isiora]

The CONFIGURATION for the EQ under the DLNA server options is correct.
You MUST also choose "specified output format" for the audio option and choose a format your device can play.

That said, with current builds you WILL HAVE NO INDICATION that the DSP is being applied to a DLNA output stream.

You will need to wait until the next release to see that processing reflected in the audiopath information (by the gear).

Thank you Bob,

I undertsood what I must do for applying DSP effects to DLNA served files. The online help and your first post in this thread is absolutely clear about it, and I have done exactly that (see my previuos picture).
I'm not interested to SEE the processing in the audiopath. I'm interested to HEAR the DSP effect. And I cannot HEAR it. This is my problem.
Does the next release addresses this?

Bye,
Isidoro

P.S.: I  know very well my device. I designed, developed and built it (see https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/307221-clearpath-ess-dac-project.html)

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thank you Bob,

I undertsood what I must do for applying DSP effects to DLNA served files. The online help and your first post in this thread is absolutely clear about it, and I have done exactly that (see my previuos picture).
I'm not interested to SEE the processing in the audiopath. I'm interested to HEAR the DSP effect. And I cannot HEAR it. This is my problem.
Does the next release addresses this?

Bye,
Isidoro

In the next release, if you can see the processing happening in the audio path, this is a big step forward because you'll know MC is applying the DSP. If it doesn't appear in the audio path, then there's a different issue.

It's clear you want it to work. I don't think getting upset will help anyone resolve your issue quicker.

[isiora]

In the next release, if you can see the processing happening in the audio path, this is a big step forward because you'll know MC is applying the DSP. If it doesn't appear in the audio path, then there's a different issue.

It's clear you want it to work. I don't think getting upset will help anyone resolve your issue quicker.

I didn't get upset. I just wanted make sure that Bob got the point, since my unclear words could lead to misunderstandings. So I'm looking forward to Bob's reply.

Regards,
Isidoro

[isiora]

Hi Bob,

I have new info about the issue. I would like to share it with you, with the sole purpose of hoping that it will be useful in solving the problem. Ignore it if it is not.

I observed a strange behaviour. I defined a new DLNA server, name it 'B', with the same settings of the default one ('A'). Setting any of DSP effects in 'B' and then switching the DAC zone to 'B', I can hear the dsp effect. But any new change to 'B' settings have no audible consequences. Modifying at this point the DSP settings of the original 'A' and switching the zone to 'A', again I can hear the new DSP settings, and so on.
In other words, it seems that I need, at any new changes to DSP settings, to switch the DAC zone between two DLNA server in order to hear them.

Regards,
Isidoro

[bob]

Hi Bob,

I have new info about the issue. I would like to share it with you, with the sole purpose of hoping that it will be useful in solving the problem. Ignore it if it is not.

I observed a strange behaviour. I defined a new DLNA server, name it 'B', with the same settings of the default one ('A'). Setting the DSP effect in 'B' and then switching the DAC zone to 'B', I can hear the dsp effect. But any new change to 'B' settings have no audible consequences. Modifying at this point the DSP settings of the original 'A' and switching the zone to 'A', again I can hear the new DSP settings, and so on.
In other words, it seems that I need, at any new changes to DSP settings, to switch the DAC zone between two DLNA server in order to hear them.

Regards,
Isidoro

I think we discovered an issue with when the DSP EQ settings are saved and this seems like it might fit in with that. It should be fixed  in the next build so try that when it comes out.

[Mike Rubin]

Please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere in the forum, but I haven't really seen it addressed for the current MC version.

I have been told by a few people that my Topping D90 DAC really shines when fed files converted to DSD256. It handles DSD files natively just fine over MC26 DLNA using the preconfigured 24bit audiophile DLNA server, but my plan is to convert mp3, FLAC, and 24bit FLAC files to DSD256 so they also will stream as DSD.

Unfortunately, the only way that I can play anything to the DAC is via DLNA because I have it connected to a Sonore microrendu rather than to the USB port on my computer.  While there is an ASIO driver for the DAC, I'm not using it for playback to it.

I have tried to create new DLNA servers with almost every combination of the following settings:  Mode: specified output; format: 16L, 16bit, or 24bit; Advanced: Studio DSP 2xDSD Native or 2xDSD DoP; Bitstream DSD checked or unchecked.

I have no problem getting files of all sorts - except native DSD! - to play over DLNA with any combination of these settings, but (1) they retain their original file formats, according to my DAC's readout, and (2) 1xDSD won't play at all.

Maybe I am trying to accomplish something that MC 26 can't do, but, if anyone has gotten universal DSD conversion to work over DLNA without shutting down the native DSD files, I would love to know how to achieve the same result.  Thanks.

[bob]

Please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere in the forum, but I haven't really seen it addressed for the current MC version.

I have been told by a few people that my Topping D90 DAC really shines when fed files converted to DSD256. It handles DSD files natively just fine over MC26 DLNA using the preconfigured 24bit audiophile DLNA server, but my plan is to convert mp3, FLAC, and 24bit FLAC files to DSD256 so they also will stream as DSD.

Unfortunately, the only way that I can play anything to the DAC is via DLNA because I have it connected to a Sonore microrendu rather than to the USB port on my computer.  While there is an ASIO driver for the DAC, I'm not using it for playback to it.

I have tried to create new DLNA servers with almost every combination of the following settings:  Mode: specified output; format: 16L, 16bit, or 24bit; Advanced: Studio DSP 2xDSD Native or 2xDSD DoP; Bitstream DSD checked or unchecked.

I have no problem getting files of all sorts - except native DSD! - to play over DLNA with any combination of these settings, but (1) they retain their original file formats, according to my DAC's readout, and (2) 1xDSD won't play at all.

Maybe I am trying to accomplish something that MC 26 can't do, but, if anyone has gotten universal DSD conversion to work over DLNA without shutting down the native DSD files, I would love to know how to achieve the same result.  Thanks.

You can't convert TO DSD, that's not a streamable format.
When you turn on DoP in the DLNA server options, and you DON'T have DSD set to convert, your DSD will be streamed DoP.
If your DAC can't handle DoP that won't play.
If you can't play DSD natively, it's possible the mimetype isn't to the liking of your DAC. You can fiddle with the mimetype, there are posts here related to modifying that.

[Mike Rubin]

Thanks, Bob.

I can see I wasn't entirely clear.  I CAN play native DSD when I use the default 24bit server.

I only am unable to play native DSD files when I set DSP to play everything as DSD. 

In those cases, everything else plays, albeit not as DSD.  From your response, though, I can see that I can't stream converted files as native DSD, so I have been trying to do the impossible.

My DAC can play both native DSD and DoP.

I can continue to use the 24bit server, which plays everything in its original format, whether mp3, FLAC, or DSD. 

[bob]

Thanks, Bob.

I can see I wasn't entirely clear.  I CAN play native DSD when I use the default 24bit server.

I only am unable to play native DSD files when I set DSP to play everything as DSD. 

In those cases, everything else plays, albeit not as DSD.  From your response, though, I can see that I can't stream converted files as native DSD, so I have been trying to do the impossible.

My DAC can play both native DSD and DoP.

I can continue to use the 24bit server, which plays everything in its original format, whether mp3, FLAC, or DSD.

Thanks for reporting that. That option in DSP studio should be disabled when it's used for DLNA.

[stefano_mbp]

You can't convert TO DSD, that's not a streamable format.

Really cannot understand ....
.... if I can stream original dsd to dlna renderer why shouldn’t be possible to upsample to dsd and then stream the result to dlna renderer?
Not clear at all for me .....

[bob]

Really cannot understand ....
.... if I can stream original dsd to dlna renderer why shouldn’t be possible to upsample to dsd and then stream the result to dlna renderer?
Not clear at all for me .....

Simple, DSD is not a format that can be streamed while being converted.