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Author Topic: NEW: Adaptive Volume  (Read 68703 times)

Matt

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NEW: Adaptive Volume
« on: July 17, 2013, 11:43:50 am »

Overview
Adaptive Volume is a system to keep the level of the input signal near full level.  

There are several use-cases where this feature is useful:
  • You use Volume Leveling and don't want the volume of everything turned down a lot unless it's actually necessary to level the volume of the current playlist
  • You would prefer to run your DAC close to full level on any input (more important for DSD and classical where the signal may never approach full scale)
  • You watch movies at night or in a situation where explosions are too loud and dialog is too quiet
  • You're trying to get enough volume out of a low power system, like during playback on laptop speakers.


MC18 added an adaptive volume mode available for video playback.  MC19 promotes this system to be available for any media type, and improves it in several important ways.

This screenshot shows Adaptive Volume in MC19 and explains the modes a little bit:


Peak Level Normalize
This mode requires special consideration.  It analyzes the current playlist to find the peak level of the entire playlist by using the values gathered during Audio Analysis.  It also considers the peak level of the entire playlist if Volume Leveling is engaged.  Then, it normalizes the playlist to this peak level.  Since this applies a fixed gain, the blue light will illuminate and Audio Path will say "peak level normalize (fixed)".

If the files being played have not been analyzed using the Analyze Audio tool, the peak level will be learned during playback.  In this mode, Audio Path will report "peak level normalize (adaptive)" and the blue light will not illuminate.  When used in this mode, the first loud part of a movie or song may cause the volume to be turned down.  Once it has turned down, the peak level has effectively been learned and the volume will not be adjusted (unless something even louder happens).

Let's describe a simple example of why this mode might be useful.  If you play Adele's 21 album, a modern best-seller mastered in a modern way, and enable Volume Leveling, it will request that all songs be turned down by 14.4dB.  This is so that if you play something mastered more conservatively, it will match Adele's volume.  However, if you are _only_ playing Adele, you're going to be applying the same -14.4dB to all the songs you hear.  You didn't actually need to turn the music down at all to achieve a level volume.  Peak Level Normalization will understand this and add the 14.4dB back (internally it's smart enough to do nothing instead of doing two offsetting changes).

Said another way, if you use Volume Leveling and Peak Level Normalization, you will get the loudest playback of the current playlist that maintains equal volume between tracks and prevents all clipping.  The volume between tracks in the playlist will be the same, but the volume between different playlists could be different (since each playlist will have a different peak level normalization value).
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 11:47:20 am »

reserved
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 12:09:18 pm »

Looks good.

A couple of things though: in the Peak Level Normalize option, I think it reads better as "Boosts low volume content, while preserving dynamic range."
As it is written, it reads as if peak level normalization is required to preserve dynamic range.

As R128 analysis also includes a dynamic range measurement, have you considered fixed levels of dynamic range compression? Even possibly trying to compress dynamic range into user-specified value?
I'm not sure how feasible that would be, or if it's a waste of development time though. I suspect (hope) most people would either use the Peak Level Normalize option, or have adaptive volume disabled altogether.


I still think it's even more important to respect the -1.0 dBTP specified by R128 when using peak normalization for analyzed files, and it should perhaps be set even lower to -3dB with files which have not been analyzed. (assuming adaptive volume is looking at samples and not inter-sample peaks) This AES paper is the one referenced in Tech 3343
Quote
For a mixing engineer, advice is simple: If you mix to digital, donít peak higher than -3 dBFS on a Sample meter.
Ö
Most consumer CD players and broadcast processors will survive when the signal is lowered by 3 dB, while data reduction codecs (MP3, AAC, DTS, AC3 etc.) may require up to 5 dB attenuation or more, depending on the data rate.
We have this now. ;D
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mojave

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 12:38:04 pm »

Just a grammar correction:  . . . You use Volume Leveling and don't want the volume of everything
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vagskal

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 12:50:53 pm »

The volume between tracks in the playlist will be the same, but the volume between different playlists could be different (since each playlist will have a different peak level normalization value).

Does all three modes work in this way? If I do not want to turn the volume knob, ever, should I refrain from using this feature altogether?

Also, it is hard to understand from your explanation what happens if all files in the library are analyzed and files are added to or removed from the playlist. Will there be a change in volume when the next track comes on? Are already played tracks in the playlist taken into account if a recalculation is made?
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 12:57:53 pm »

Does all three modes work in this way? If I do not want to turn the volume knob, ever, should I refrain from using this feature altogether?
Volume leveling on its own accomplishes this. Volume leveling combined with adaptive volume will level the current playlist, but play it as loud as possible without clipping. (so you have to adjust volume when starting playback, and potentially when adding or removing tracks)

Adaptive volume without volume leveling will adjust the peak of every track to be as loud as possible. This will not sound level at all.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 01:07:27 pm »

Volume leveling on its own accomplishes this. Volume leveling combined with adaptive volume will level the current playlist, but play it as loud as possible without clipping. (so you have to adjust volume when starting playback, and potentially when adding or removing tracks)

Adaptive volume without volume leveling will adjust the peak of every track to be as loud as possible. This will not sound level at all.

This is exactly right with one small clarification.

Adaptive Volume without Volume Leveling will adjust to the peak of the playlist in 'Peak Level Normalize' mode, not each track.

The other modes are more adaptive so it's a blurry line if they're adjusting the track or playlist.
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vagskal

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 01:19:11 pm »

Thank you for the answers!

I take it this feature is not for me then, except perhaps when I, out of consideration for my house cohabitants, feel like being in a "night mode". I will refrain from further questions about it.

I am happy with just smart volume leveling.
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 02:25:50 pm »

Adaptive Volume without Volume Leveling will adjust to the peak of the playlist in 'Peak Level Normalize' mode, not each track.
So there's no difference whether volume leveling is enabled or disabled in that case? (that's fine, but it seemed like this solved the request from that one guy that wanted the highest SNR at all times)
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 02:32:23 pm »

So there's no difference whether volume leveling is enabled or disabled in that case? (that's fine, but it seemed like this solved the request from that one guy that wanted the highest SNR at all times)

It gives that guy the highest peak level _while_ maintaining a constant gain across the playlist.  So it's close to what he wanted, but maybe not exactly.  He could always play one track at a time ;)
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 02:57:55 pm »

Will this keep consecutive tracks from the same album from being 'adjusted'?  i.e. if one quiet song is 'supposed to' lead to a loud one, per original mastering, I want to hear it that way.  (Dark Side of the Moon)

Is that possible?
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 03:06:31 pm »

Will this keep consecutive tracks from the same album from being 'adjusted'?  i.e. if one quiet song is 'supposed to' lead to a loud one, per original mastering, I want to hear it that way.  (Dark Side of the Moon)

Is that possible?
Volume leveling combined with adaptive volume set to peak normalization should do that.
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mojave

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 03:10:06 pm »

Volume leveling combined with adaptive volume set to peak normalization should do that.
All scenarios will preserve relative album volume differences when the album is played in order:

Volume Leveling
Volume Leveling + Adaptive Volume
Adaptive Volume
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JustinChase

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 03:10:21 pm »

Volume leveling combined with adaptive volume set to peak normalization should do that.

Cool.  I just saw this in another post also.  I'm happy :)

  • Smarter Volume Leveling that automatically respects intentional between track levels when playing from an album
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2013, 04:45:46 pm »

To check I'm reading all this correctly (so If I don't get it the first post from Matt may need some changes).  I want:
- When playing the Album I'd want it MC to adjust the volume levelling based on the whole Album and leave any volume difference between tracks in tact, but
- When playing a playlist of a mix of songs from various Albums then I would want volume levelling to apply to all tracks.

To do this I :
1) check Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalisation) (also is this the default setup?)
2) to work "most effectively" I should also run Analyse Audio over all files to get the new values

Thanks
Nathan

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 05:10:47 pm »

Adaptive Volume is only when you want the current playlist to be played as loud as possible. (while avoiding clipping)
If you are using peak normalization and have a playlist where the maximum peak volume is -10dB, it will boost the volume of all tracks in the playlist by +10dB for example.
I personally dislike adaptive volume, because it means that you have to change the volume control each time you start playing something new.

Perhaps this needs to be made clearer somehow.


Volume Leveling (without Adaptive Volume) tries to normalize the volume of all tracks around a fixed level of -23 dB. (technically Loudness Units, or LU, when talking about R128 values)
This means that playback could be considerably quieter, but -23dB gives you enough headroom that it should mean all tracks are able to be normalized to the same value.
With everything normalized to -23 dB, in theory, you would never have to touch Media Center's volume control again.

When you have a playlist of mixed tracks, they are individually adjusted to play at -23dB. (or as close as possible - perceptual analysis is very hard to get completely right)
If you are playing albums rather than a mixed playlist, the average value for the whole album is adjusted to -23dB, rather than adjusting each track individually, so that album dynamics are preserved.



When the two are combined, volume leveling normalizes the volume of all tracks (to -23dB) and then adaptive volume increases the volume of that normalized playlist to be as loud as possible. (e.g. +10dB if the maximum peak level in the playlist is still -10dB)

Files need to be analyzed for either of these features to work well.
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 05:10:53 pm »

Another Q regarding the use with Video:

1) Music Video:  I plan to Analyse Audio on these as the vol and presume it will work as per my post abovev
2) Movies / TV Eps:  I do NOT plan to Analyse Audio on these as they tend to run for a longer period so changing my AV Vol manually on the RC works fine.  If these files are NOT Analysed will MC try to adjust vol levels as playback of the movies goes along (using Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalisation) )?  I hope not  ;D
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 05:26:01 pm »

To make things easier to understand, perhaps "Peak Normalization" should be renamed to something like "Maximize Volume" with a description saying that it tries to play the current playlist as loud as possible without interfering with dynamic range?
And Night Mode/Small Speakers would probably need something that explains they compress the dynamic range to go even louder, but may result in volume fluctuations.

Another Q regarding the use with Video:

1) Music Video:  I plan to Analyse Audio on these as the vol and presume it will work as per my post abovev
2) Movies / TV Eps:  I do NOT plan to Analyse Audio on these as they tend to run for a longer period so changing my AV Vol manually on the RC works fine.  If these files are NOT Analysed will MC try to adjust vol levels as playback of the movies goes along (using Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalisation) )?  I hope not  ;D
You'll get the "standard" -10dB for all videos which have not been analyzed if volume leveling is enabled.

Adaptive volume may adjust the volume dynamically during playback if the file has not been analyzed.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 05:34:01 pm »

You'll get the "standard" -10dB for all videos which have not been analyzed if volume leveling is enabled.

We're using 0dB as our guess for video and -10dB for audio.
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 05:55:55 pm »

Wow the explanations are coming across to me as more complex than I expected so I must be missing something.  Let me try to post the Q again (I was hoping for a short Yes, or No --> set it up like this).

What I want to do is the ability to set the new config in MC once and leave it for ever.  Happy to analyse the Audio again and will do so on import.
- If the tracks are from a mixed playlists I want to have their volume levelled across all tracks
- If the tracks are from one album then I don't want volume levelled on a per track basis but on the whole album instead
- I expect it will be the same behaviour for my Music Video as for Music Audio files
- I don't expect I will vol analyse movies (but can if needed) and I don't want MC dynamically adjusting volume during playback of the movie.

I currently have set MC as follows:
- Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalisation)
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 05:57:38 pm »

If you want things to sound the same volume, turn on Volume Leveling.

If you're alright with different playlists being different volumes, turn on Adaptive Volume in Peak Level Normalization mode.  It will make the playlist louder, but also cause different playlists to be different volumes.
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 07:50:42 pm »

I've Analyse Audio on my 8K Audio files and it finished without any fuss, but some more Q's:
- There are now no values in Replay Gain (I had read a comment that these were still going to be calculated off R128 values for compatibility with other progs)
- Volume Level Album (R128) is blank (for all but one Album)
- Values are not copied to the Stack Members

In some quick listening test I think Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalisation) gives me what I want.  I can see when playing an album the values net out to 0 for each track when they are played and when in a VA smart list each track is adjusted individually.

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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2013, 02:41:38 am »

FYI - in testing all of this I solved a long standing annoyance with my "Main PC" that uses a FiiO E10 DAC.  I was getting odd "fade outs" in SPL and some clicks and pops.  Anyway after mucking around it turns out changing the USB port was all that was needed.  Go figure  ::)
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2013, 03:25:28 am »

OK - Next dumb Q on this.  I have a Various Artist Top 40 "Album" that has been created from different sourced tracks (but it is not a playlist).  I want all of these to be use Track not Album Vol Normalisation.  As this goes against the rules above, how would you do this?  Would I have to use MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Leveling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of this tracks?  Thankfully all the Top 40 stuff is probably all mixed to the same hot levels anyway.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2013, 04:30:54 am »

OK - Next dumb Q on this.  I have a Various Artist Top 40 "Album" that has been created from different sourced tracks (but it is not a playlist).  I want all of these to be use Track not Album Vol Normalisation.  As this goes against the rules above, how would you do this?  Would I have to use MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Leveling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of this tracks?  Thankfully all the Top 40 stuff is probably all mixed to the same hot levels anyway.

I was wondering the same thing. I have compiled "albums" for several top 40 charts from different years. As I used to use track based leveling this wasn't a real issue but this will probably now be treated as album based?
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2013, 06:09:45 am »

OK - Next dumb Q on this.  I have a Various Artist Top 40 "Album" that has been created from different sourced tracks (but it is not a playlist).  I want all of these to be use Track not Album Vol Normalisation.  As this goes against the rules above, how would you do this?  Would I have to use MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Leveling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of this tracks?  Thankfully all the Top 40 stuff is probably all mixed to the same hot levels anyway.
I was wondering the same thing. I have compiled "albums" for several top 40 charts from different years. As I used to use track based leveling this wasn't a real issue but this will probably now be treated as album based?

This discussion really belongs in volume leveling rather than adaptive volume, but thinking about this I'm not sure that there is a good automatic solution, and I don't know what the best way would be to set this manually.

If these were simply playlists of files taken from other albums, they would play in track mode automatically because [Album] would be different.
But if you are putting them all in the same folder and calling them an album (e.g. "Top 40, 2010") then they're going to be treated as an album.

You can't algorithmically determine whether this is a "real" compilation album, or if it is a "fake" album that is just a collection of tracks.
If you are checking to see whether [Artist] and [Album] are the same for all tracks and trying to guess that way, you will have too many false positives when looking at real compilation albums, tracks which have multiple artists, or albums which have a guest track on them.
I have compilation albums where the tracks are at specific volumes and crossfade into each other, so using track-based gain would be disastrous.



What were you doing about this in MC18?

Were you just playing all albums in track-mode?
Were you playing to a separate zone?
Were you changing the option manually each time?
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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2013, 06:15:41 am »

What were you doing about this in MC18?

Were you just playing all albums in track-mode?
Were you playing to a separate zone?
Were you changing the option manually each time?

Default was track mode, I switched if it bothered me when I was playing an album that was obviously off.
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jmone

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2013, 06:17:18 am »

I was not addressing this at all in MC18.... but this topic has got me thinking.  I presume that the only real way to deal with this is to collect all the tracks together and remaster them as a new album using MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Leveling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of these tracks then delete the "old" collection and use the newly remastered album.
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2013, 06:24:29 am »

I was not addressing this at all in MC18.... but this topic has got me thinking.  I presume that the only real way to deal with this is to collect all the tracks together and remaster them as a new album using MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Leveling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of these tracks then delete the "old" collection and use the newly remastered album.
I don't really like that as a solution - normalization should never be touching the audio data. Just think if you had done that for ReplayGain and now wanted to switch to R128.

The only good solutions for this that I can come up with are to either have a special tag or keyword that puts the album into track mode, or to bring back the options, letting the user select "Auto/Track/Album"
I don't like the idea of bringing back the volume leveling options.
Something like this for "Track Gain" seems like it would be best: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80850.0
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2013, 06:38:08 am »

So from a use case basis I have:
1) Tracks from with a single "Album" tag where you want only Album based adaptive Vol (eg a rip of Pink Floyd the Wall)
2) Tracks form a playlist consisting of tracks from multiple "Album" tags where you want Track based adaptive Vol

From my testing both of these are currently OK.... but I also have

3) Tracks copied from multiple sources to create a single "Album" tag (eg Hits of the 90's) that also need to have Track based adaptive Vol

Thinking out loud (and to your point) you could have a tag that says "use track based" or else you would have to remaster them using MC's Convert Format function (with DSP --> Vol Levelling enabled) to create a normalised "Album" of these tracks.... There may be a third option I've not thought of....
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locust

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2013, 05:22:21 pm »

I like this but would rather night mode was a checkbox, with the a couple extra time boxes where you could set start hour, end hour..
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mojave

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2013, 05:43:28 pm »

I like this but would rather night mode was a checkbox, with the a couple extra time boxes where you could set start hour, end hour..
You can create a Night movie zone and put the following in as one of the ZoneSwitch rules (thanks to MrC):

[=Compare(FormatDate(Now(), H), >, 20)]=1

Just change the "20" with the time you want it to start. It is in 24 hour time so 20 equates to 8 pm. If using Internal Volume, you can also set a lower maximum volume for this zone. Move this zone up to a higher priority over the other zones so that if the time is less than your set time, the zone will be ignored and ZoneSwitch will move to the next video zone you have configured.
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locust

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2013, 06:06:39 pm »

Yeah, seen that thread before still have to try it out for myself.. Still though for an option such as Night Mode, would still make some sense to have native time switching especially for novice users that haven't dabbled in zone switching yet nevermind zone switching with expressions..

You can create a Night movie zone and put the following in as one of the ZoneSwitch rules (thanks to MrC):

[=Compare(FormatDate(Now(), H), >, 20)]=1

Just change the "20" with the time you want it to start. It is in 24 hour time so 20 equates to 8 pm. If using Internal Volume, you can also set a lower maximum volume for this zone. Move this zone up to a higher priority over the other zones so that if the time is less than your set time, the zone will be ignored and ZoneSwitch will move to the next video zone you have configured.
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2013, 07:26:06 am »

Yet another newbie Q:  Clip Protection Vs Flat Line.  I've got Vol Levelling and Peak Level Normalise on + reanalysed the library.  So shouldn't this remove the need for the Clip Protection Vs Flat Line Overflows settings as on some tracks I see an additional reduction when Clip Protection is selected.
Thanks
Nathan
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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2013, 10:03:16 pm »

How do I disable this feature?  ?

It seems to be enabled by default when I play video files.

I am using MC 18.0.211

 :-\


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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2013, 01:23:12 am »

This feature is new in the upcoming MC19, its impossible to be activated for videos in MC18, you must be seeing something else.
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2013, 08:55:37 am »

How do I disable this feature?  ?
It seems to be enabled by default when I play video files.
I am using MC 18.0.211
Adaptive Volume is set in Tools > Options > Video > Adaptive Volume in Media Center 18.
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magnust

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2013, 10:17:02 am »

Very interesting, a "must-get-19"-feature  ;D  So I bought 19.  ;D :D


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astromo

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2013, 01:28:36 am »


Peak Level Normalize
If the files being played have not been analyzed using the Analyze Audio tool, the peak level will be learned during playback.  In this mode, Audio Path will report "peak level normalize (adaptive)" and the blue light will not illuminate.  When used in this mode, the first loud part of a movie or song may cause the volume to be turned down.  Once it has turned down, the peak level has effectively been learned and the volume will not be adjusted (unless something even louder happens).

Great example of integrating current technology into the platform.

Before I get started, let me assure everyone that I'm not a blue light moth or a "bit perfect" nut. OK.

Prelude: I rescanned all my audio files with MC19 Audio Analyser and let it run over night and during a work week day, so all my audio has all the new audio analysis tags.. sweet!   8)
Q1.  Reading Matt's intro above, I would expect to see the magic blue light on because the audio has been re-analysed but that's not the case. Used to light up in MC18 but "no glow" in MC19 so far.

[For info, DSP is set up as follows-
Output Format (checked) : Output Encoding - None, Channels 2.0 with JRSS
Volume Levelling (checked)
Adaptive Volume Analyser (checked) : Peak Level Normalise (checked)
... that's it, nothing else is on

Audio device is HDMI - WASAPI (default settings) - with this deal in MC18 it was a blue light all the way]

Q2. What's the influence of Volume Mode in all of this?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume#Mode_Details

I've gone for disabled to avoid internal volume processing and leave it to the external device (in my case the amp) but is it important or just not relevant?

Thanks ..
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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2013, 05:03:12 am »

I've tested Adaptive volume with several albums and mixed playlists. I don't like it because it audibly changes the volume, sometimes halfway into a track. For Music listening, Peak Level Normalize seems to be the only viable option as its supposed to preserve dynamic range but on several occasions I could audibly hear it adjust the volume down.

Peter Gabriel's album 4 (security) is a good example. When adding the album in order, you can hear it adjust volume down on the first track because its starting too loud. The song is very quiet and builds up. If you ask me if it has to adjust the volume along the way, it isn't preserving dynamic range.

I probably don't understand how it works, but when you've analyzed an album and you know what the loudest peaks are shouldn't it be easy to determine the maximum gain you can apply? I thought this was how the album mode worked with replaygain in MC18 (and respectfully, I thought that's how peak level normalize should work from the description). If this is true, then I believe peak level normalize is broken.


Fixed! Read my reply below.
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2013, 05:30:26 am »

I've tested Adaptive volume with several albums and mixed playlists. I don't like it because it audibly changes the volume, sometimes halfway into a track. For Music listening, Peak Level Normalize seems to be the only viable option as its supposed to preserve dynamic range but on several occasions I could audibly hear it adjust the volume down.
You need to have analyzed your files to avoid this happening. If they have been analyzed, you should not have volume fluctuations (at least not if the playlist is unchanged) - does the Audio Path indicate that Media Center has reduced the volume to avoid clipping?


I do agree that it would be nice if the higher levels of "adaptive volume" were fixed dynamic range compression adjustments rather than dynamic ones though. (not that I'll be using them anyway - it just seems like that would be more consistent?)
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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2013, 05:59:02 am »

Everything is analyzed and you're right, its clipping :-[

It just dawned on me why too; the order of processing was incorrect; equalizer came after adaptive volume. When I upgraded to MC19 adaptive volume right was placed right after volume leveling, I never gave it a thought. Both equalizer and room correction came after it. And since it was doing a +4dB fixed, the equalizer and room correction caused it to clip. Disabling adaptive volume removed the +4dB so it wasn't clipping anymore which led me to believe adaptive volume was the problem.

Sorry for the false alarm!

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kredmore

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2013, 11:42:00 am »

Nice to see this feature, as I stream music, and the gain was lowered (-010 db) with this recent change in MC18:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=81245.0

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fluidz

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2013, 01:18:40 pm »

Hi Matt,

Fantastic feature I must say, .  Does enabling both Adaptive (normalize) and leveling affect music such as classical where passages vary?  Im listening to Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder, with both features turned on, and i can swear the Modular synth has increased in volume, or is that just my imagination?

Aside, just an idea..

Whilst re-analysing my library to fit in with the new Adaptive volume feature, which is quite huge btw (8000 tracks), the log is actively scrolling and there seems to be no way to stop it other than fighting with it - yes, I always loose.  I've got JRiver analysing atm whilst listening to music, it's taking a fair while even with 4 processes enabled.  I would like to keep track of what has been analysed whilst I'm listening to music so I can play only those that have finished analysing.

How about adding a pause scroll log 'checkbox', so the user can scroll freely and see what's already been done. 

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faster

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2013, 03:10:19 pm »

Hello Matt,
I've tested Adaptive volume with several albums and mixed playlists. I don't like it because it audibly changes the volume, sometimes halfway into a track. For Music listening, Peak Level Normalize seems to be the only viable option as its supposed to preserve dynamic range but on several occasions I could audibly hear it adjust the volume down.

Same behavior here. All files are analyzed. Volume changes while tracks are playing. Look at this captured File. Start/Stop/Start Files with JRemote, and captured the behavior in JRiver. Please look for the the adaptive volume changing on screean while playing...

Thanks!

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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2013, 03:12:56 pm »

Apart from the fact that I also made a mistake with DSP order, there's also been a bug confirmed (and fixed in the next release).
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6233638

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2013, 03:32:40 pm »

Hello Matt,
Same behavior here. All files are analyzed. Volume changes while tracks are playing. Look at this captured File. Start/Stop/Start Files with JRemote, and captured the behavior in JRiver. Please look for the the adaptive volume changing on screean while playing...
It looks like these files were analyzed by a previous version of Media Center - you need to re-analyze files in MC19 for volume leveling and adaptive volume to work correctly. Older versions of Media Center did not perform true peak level analysis. (Peak Level R128)
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faster

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2013, 03:50:58 pm »

It looks like these files were analyzed by a previous version of Media Center - you need to re-analyze files in MC19 for volume leveling and adaptive volume to work correctly. Older versions of Media Center did not perform true peak level analysis. (Peak Level R128)

The Files were analyzed with MC 19.0.27. should i reanalyse them again?
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InflatableMouse

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2013, 04:15:29 pm »

Can you check whether your files have peak level (R128) and volume level (R128) tags set? If they are, you could try reanalysing 1 or 2 files that fluctuate and see if that helps.
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N2audio

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Re: NEW: Adaptive Volume
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2013, 09:56:52 am »

The audio path is showing a mix of "adaptive" and "fixed" files even though I've analyzed the entire library.  What could cause some files to show peak level normalize(fixed) and others peak level normalize(adaptive)?  I'm confused, any help is appreciated.
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