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Author Topic: WDM Problems  (Read 76637 times)

RoderickGI

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WDM Problems
« Reply #200 on: November 08, 2014, 11:38:14 pm »

Any suggestions?

If you are currently pointing Spotify to the MC WDM driver, try pointing it to the Default Windows sound driver instead. Of course, have the Default Windows sound driver set to the MC WDM driver.

So;
Spotify to Windows Default audio driver = MC WDM driver to ADL Esprit

instead of;
Spotify to MC WDM driver to ADL Esprit


This simple change, which should make no difference at all, worked for me in one scenario I have.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

gswaul

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WDM Problems
« Reply #201 on: November 09, 2014, 06:26:36 pm »

How do I point Spotify to anything other than the default Windows driver?  I cannot find any option within Spotify to make your suggested change.  Can you expand on your details?

Thanks,
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JimH

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« Reply #202 on: November 09, 2014, 06:28:23 pm »

Please read the first post in this thread.

You need the latest version of MC20 (build 41 or greater).  You then set Windows to use its new WDM driver.
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RoderickGI

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« Reply #203 on: November 09, 2014, 09:46:15 pm »

How do I point Spotify to anything other than the default Windows driver?  I cannot find any option within Spotify to make your suggested change.  Can you expand on your details?

Thanks,
Sorry I'm not a Spotify user, so I can't help with settings and so on. However, if there is no setting in Spotify for the audio output device, then it must be pointing to the Default Windows sound device anyway, so my suggestion wouldn't change anything.

I suspect that you have already read the first post as Jim suggested. If you wish to find out if Spotify always points to the Default Windows sound device or can be pointed directly to another sound device, you will need to contact Spotify support.

This may not be the cause of your stuttering though, so keep asking here for more Spotify user to chime in. Perhaps start a specific thread on the topic.

BTW, I assume you are using the Windows version of Spotify, and not running it on a iDevice and sending it to your HTPC?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

gswaul

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WDM Problems
« Reply #204 on: November 09, 2014, 10:19:37 pm »

Read all the posts in this thread including the first.  Everything appears to be correct and is completely operational with this exception.  Spotify is coming through the WDM-USB connection with poor results.  Since it works for all other connections without any problem, I keep thinking that it is a setting somewhere???  I'll keep trying but can always change the default player when I am listening to Spotify at my desk.

Thanks for your help!  Maybe someone will have had this issue before and I just need to wait until they get back.
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SpaceLaser

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« Reply #205 on: November 10, 2014, 08:39:25 am »

I've been having some issues, where if I leave my PC idle (like leaving my work PC idle over the weekend), the JRiver audio device in Windows seems to disappear. The only way I can get it to come back appears to be restarting my PC. Is there any other workaround to get the device to reappear (manually reinstalling/loading the driver)?
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Trumpetguy

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« Reply #206 on: November 10, 2014, 09:32:50 am »

How do I point Spotify to anything other than the default Windows driver? 

You can't.
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djwobbrock

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« Reply #207 on: November 11, 2014, 02:27:37 am »

I have been running Tidal for the last 5 days, and I was getting stuttering using WDM driver through MC20.27.  The stuttering was in the first 5 seconds of every song.  I increased buffer size incrementally to test, from 100, to 250 and eventually 500, this lost the stuttering in the first 5 seconds, but I still had random blips throughout the track.  I had Tidal set to the MC20 WDM driver.  When I set Tidal to use the IFI HD USB ASIO driver, the playback is smooth throughout the track.  I have experimented with the for the last two days, and have resigned myself to using Tidal without any of the sound improvements that may be offered using MC20 w/WDM drivers.  Problem seems to have something to do with buffering through MC20.  
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Fabith

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« Reply #208 on: November 11, 2014, 03:59:40 am »

This is a great addition to MC and it works perfectly for me in 3 of 4 scenarios.

MC to Devialet via Ethernet, works.
Spotify to MC to Devialet via Ethernet, works.
MC to ADL Esprit via USB, works.
Spotify to MC to ADL Esprit, fails.

When I try to play Spotify to MC to ADL Esprit, I get constant stutters/dropouts.  I have tried changing buffer values and latency with no change at higher or lower values.  If I change the default playback device from JR to the ADL Esprit, the problem goes away.  It would be nice if all 4 options worked the same for me.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Try "Fidelizer"
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JimH

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« Reply #209 on: November 11, 2014, 06:02:22 am »

I have been running Tidal for the last 5 days, and I was getting stuttering using WDM driver through MC20.27.  The stuttering was in the first 5 seconds of every song.  I increased buffer size incrementally to test, from 100, to 250 and eventually 500, this lost the stuttering in the first 5 seconds, but I still had random blips throughout the track.  I had Tidal set to the MC20 WDM driver.  When I set Tidal to use the IFI HD USB ASIO driver, the playback is smooth throughout the track.  I have experimented with the for the last two days, and have resigned myself to using Tidal without any of the sound improvements that may be offered using MC20 w/WDM drivers.  Problem seems to have something to do with buffering through MC20.  
Did you try a very small buffer?

From the first post:
Quote
You may need to adjust the buffer size down in Options > Audio > Device settings.  I used 10ms.
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Arindelle

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« Reply #210 on: November 11, 2014, 06:28:30 am »

I mentioned on the Tidal thread I can't test it where I am, but Qobuz which I believe to be similiar (lossless streaming) has in its config panel  a buffer (tampon memoire if any frenchies are reading this). I have set this to a very low setting (64kb). If Tidal has the same setting try setting it to the lowest possible buffer if your internet connection can handle it.

Otherwise, what Jim is saying is what you want to do, even if it seems like you should go the other way around. I have set up three machines on one

All but one machine has both the audio device settings buffer and (under advanced) the latency are set below 50 milliseconds. I'd avoid the minimum hardware setting though. Remember to juggle both.

First I create a zone, call it streaming or whatever. Then I start first to set the device setting at 50 milliseconds and move the latency setting down gradually starting at 50ms. If it gets to 10, go to the buffer setting and decrease that gradually. Then do an audio/video sync to fine tune between the two parameters.

Also uncheck memory playback option in JRiver (can't help, could hurt) as these streams are stored in a cache anyways

If you are using multiple machines, remember that each macine will be different

EDIT -- hmm, maybe this is not the only problem ... see this post http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92913.0
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adlelare

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« Reply #211 on: November 11, 2014, 07:08:00 am »

given this WDM disaster i strongly recommend that JRiver staff take the time and properly rewrite the correct instructions on how to use this thing.  after a lot of frustratingly wasted time i did the smart thing and keep the thing disabled.
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djwobbrock

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« Reply #212 on: November 11, 2014, 07:31:51 am »

Did you try a very small buffer?

From the first post:

I tried that the last couple of days, 50, 25 and 10, that causes stuttering/dropouts in the first 10 seconds of every track.  Then I started going the other way, 100. 250 and 500, but then I got stuttering/dropouts randomly throughout the track, this is with the MC20 WDM driver.  If I use the IFI HD Audio driver, I get smooth play, no stuttering/dropouts, so it looks like I can't use the MC20 WDM driver combination.  I've been all over the settings, restarting Tidal and MC20 each time settings were changed, to no avail.
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6233638

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« Reply #213 on: November 11, 2014, 07:50:32 am »

given this WDM disaster i strongly recommend that JRiver staff take the time and properly rewrite the correct instructions on how to use this thing.  after a lot of frustratingly wasted time i did the smart thing and keep the thing disabled.
I certainly wouldn't call it a disaster.

I would say that it has the same problem as most new features which is that they are not fully documented when released, may not be in a "final release" state on their initial release (though I'm not sure if it's on the "stable" branch yet?) and the program itself doesn't explain anything about them - it seems to be assumed that you're following the forums.
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gswaul

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« Reply #214 on: November 11, 2014, 09:20:42 am »

Sorry, I misspoke.  I just toggled the "disable event style" setting as you recommended and had those results.  So it seems there are a lot of us that are having similar problems with the WDM when using a streaming service to a local USB device?  I have gone up and down the buffer/latency scale with no improvement.  For now, I will just disable the WMD to listen to Spotify.  Maybe this problem will resolve itself with time and updates.  Three out of four isn't bad . . . .
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JimH

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« Reply #215 on: November 11, 2014, 01:24:44 pm »

Works with Amazon Prime Music.
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JimH

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« Reply #216 on: November 11, 2014, 02:01:30 pm »

Build 37 may fix the problem with the driver being set to default by Windows.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93304.0
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Paul W

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« Reply #217 on: November 11, 2014, 02:03:09 pm »

Could we get the option to set how long it takes to drop the stream? I know this was talked about earlier. I build speakers, and in process of doing so I take measurements......lots and lots of measurements. I use MC for eq/xo so it needs to be in the loop. It's a pain having the signal drop after 5 seconds. Then I have to take a "junk" measurement or run a tone generator to pick it back up. When I take a measurement then change eq I've lost the stream. Or if I hesitate a bit too long when taking polar data I lose it then too.
I second this request for exactly the same reasons.  Either adjustable, or a check-box to turn it on and off would be dandy.
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Matt

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« Reply #218 on: November 11, 2014, 02:18:47 pm »

I second this request for exactly the same reasons.  Either adjustable, or a check-box to turn it on and off would be dandy.

Just in case you missed it earlier:
We changed to 10 seconds of silence instead of 5 seconds.

It's a little better for you, I hope.
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Paul W

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« Reply #219 on: November 11, 2014, 02:46:33 pm »

Yes, I did see that.  Adjustable or a switch would even better.  (don't want to fight my tools)
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natehansen66

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« Reply #220 on: November 12, 2014, 03:33:37 am »

10 seconds still isn't enough for speaker design and many measurements. I tried it again last night and after dropping the stream many times switched back to HiFi Cable.
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6233638

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« Reply #221 on: November 12, 2014, 05:26:09 am »

+1 for making it a preference. Since it stutters every time it initializes, I'd want it to remain open for several minutes.
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kalston

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« Reply #222 on: November 14, 2014, 06:31:54 am »

+1 for making it a preference. Since it stutters every time it initializes, I'd want it to remain open for several minutes.

Same here! Would be really nice.
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DoubtingThomas

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« Reply #223 on: November 15, 2014, 03:59:45 pm »

I have no plans on using the WMD driver.  Is there any harm in letting it install anyway?  Is there a way to turn off the install?

The sound card I use for MC is not my default card and I don't want windows noises to ever come out of my audio system speakers.
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JimH

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« Reply #224 on: November 15, 2014, 04:10:12 pm »

I have no plans on using the WMD driver.  Is there any harm in letting it install anyway?  Is there a way to turn off the install?

The sound card I use for MC is not my default card and I don't want windows noises to ever come out of my audio system speakers.
From build 29:

The installer can be run from the command line with the /NoDriver switch to skip the driver install, but it does no harm to have it installed.
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JimH

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« Reply #225 on: November 15, 2014, 04:17:29 pm »

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berstuck

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« Reply #226 on: November 15, 2014, 04:52:59 pm »

Not sure why you split my posts into the other thread.  The issue I have is unrelated to wasapi event style.  Toggling wasapi event style on and off has no affect on my problem.  The wdm driver works great when inputting directsound.  It crackles when inputting wasapi.  Not on all sources however.  Local files play fine.  Some streaming files crackle.  It is hit and miss what works and what doesn't.  Most files I've played from soundcloud crackle.  About half the youtube videos I've watched do not.  I'm done posting on the issue however.  If Matt eventually figures it out great, if not directsound works fine and is a good enough solution.
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JimH

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« Reply #227 on: November 15, 2014, 05:17:11 pm »

In audio options, did you try small buffer sizes?  10, 50, 100, for example.
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berstuck

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« Reply #228 on: November 15, 2014, 05:25:52 pm »

If you reread my posts I've tried every combination of buffer size.  Nothing changes the crackle problem with wasapi input into jriver.  Again I can use directsound.  If I feel the resampling is an issue for my local audio files I'll set jriver up as my audio player again.  Just trying to avoid it, as the biggest bonuses to this for me would be eq without windows resampling (can already use equalizer apo with directsound out)  and of course convolution, all while using xbmc.
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JimH

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« Reply #229 on: November 15, 2014, 05:28:18 pm »

If you reread my posts I've tried every combination of buffer size.
I'm sorry, but I don't re-read every post before I offer a suggestion.  I hope you understand why.

I can't imagine why you would get crackling on WASAPI but not DirectSound.

The most common reason for any sound problem with WASAPI is having the "Event Style" setting wrong for the DAC.

I don't think you're seeing a JRiver bug.
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berstuck

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« Reply #230 on: November 15, 2014, 08:11:35 pm »

I'm sorry, but I don't re-read every post before I offer a suggestion.  I hope you understand why.

I can't imagine why you would get crackling on WASAPI but not DirectSound.

The most common reason for any sound problem with WASAPI is having the "Event Style" setting wrong for the DAC.

I don't think you're seeing a JRiver bug.

What I'm seeing is 100% a bug with the JRiver audio driver.  I installed the new JRiver on my media server in the bedroom, and installed the latest version of Kodi.  Same exact issue with completely different hardware, only much worse.  Using wasapi in to JRiver caused my computer to blue screen.  For what it's worth, changing the latency and buffer settings to hardware minimum caused my other pc to blue screen even when using directsound in to JRiver.  This is a great feature, but it's essential in beta right now.
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njoak

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« Reply #231 on: November 16, 2014, 05:37:10 am »

I don't have any help to lend but, for what it's worth, berstuck is not alone in having trouble inputting WASAPI to the WDM driver. I posted a thread about noise and blue screen issues here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93044.0  

A couple people chimed in with similar issues in that thread, and I have seen comments about it in other threads as well.
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JimH

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« Reply #232 on: November 16, 2014, 06:40:00 am »

Are you using 20.0.37?
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njoak

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« Reply #233 on: November 16, 2014, 07:13:42 am »

No, 20.0.27. I'm on the stable update path.
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mutato

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« Reply #234 on: November 16, 2014, 07:17:55 am »

Like berstuck, I suffer from crackling sounds no matter what buffer size I set or whether event style is disabled or not. Using 20.0.37.
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JimH

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« Reply #235 on: November 16, 2014, 09:28:29 am »

No, 20.0.27. I'm on the stable update path.
Try the build from the top of this board.
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njoak

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« Reply #236 on: November 16, 2014, 11:37:39 am »

Try the build from the top of this board.

Jim,

I tried 20.0.37 now but I'm afraid the problems with white noise and BSOD when inputting WASAPI into the WDM driver are exactly the same. I can replicate the problems 100% of the time.

On a separate but also unfortunate note, I cannot configure the .37 WDM driver to more than 2 channels (the configure option is greyed out in the settings for playback devices), so I guess I have to revert to .27... The icon for the JRiver playback device is now two RCA plugs instead of a speaker, if it helps.
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JimH

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« Reply #237 on: November 16, 2014, 12:20:59 pm »

I tried 20.0.37 now but I'm afraid the problems with white noise and BSOD when inputting WASAPI into the WDM driver are exactly the same.
Please explain exactly what you mean by "inputting WASAPI...".
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njoak

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« Reply #238 on: November 16, 2014, 12:30:41 pm »

Please explain exactly what you mean by "inputting WASAPI...".

I mean playing media in some Windows application (other than JRiver), using WASAPI as opposed to Directsound for the audio, and using the new JRiver WDM driver as the audio device in Windows system (or the media application) settings.

I got the impression in some threads that the issue is confused with routing audio FROM JRiver to a sound card or DAC using WASAPI, which is not the case.



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AoXoMoXoA

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« Reply #239 on: November 17, 2014, 07:32:38 pm »

MC did it again . .  . WDM set itself as default driver upon install of the update in spite of it having been set as DISABLED in my system.
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Awesome Donkey

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« Reply #240 on: November 17, 2014, 08:11:17 pm »

The installer can be run from the command line with the /NoDriver switch to skip the driver install, but it does no harm to have it installed.

When you do this, do you have to use /NoDriver every time you update MC20? Or does it remember that the driver was not installed and thus won't attempt installing it when updating?
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SpaceLaser

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« Reply #241 on: November 19, 2014, 06:29:07 pm »

Had some really weird behavior today. Was in the middle of playing a game using the WDM driver, but then my IPC auido completely died and deafening static starting going full blast. I redirected my Windows audio output directly to my soundcard instead of JRiver, and audio was fine. Any idea what nuked the WDM driver here?
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natehansen66

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« Reply #242 on: November 20, 2014, 08:26:21 am »

Had some really weird behavior today. Was in the middle of playing a game using the WDM driver, but then my IPC auido completely died and deafening static starting going full blast. I redirected my Windows audio output directly to my soundcard instead of JRiver, and audio was fine. Any idea what nuked the WDM driver here?

That happened to me once a couple builds ago.
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SpaceLaser

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« Reply #243 on: November 20, 2014, 03:04:16 pm »

That happened to me once a couple builds ago.

I ended up rebooting and it seems to work now. I'm on the Latest branch if that helps.
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natehansen66

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« Reply #244 on: November 20, 2014, 04:08:52 pm »

Ahh, cool. Any reason not to let the user define the value in the advanced options?

Any thoughts from the MC team on this, wrt keeping the wdm stream open?
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ldoodle

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« Reply #245 on: November 21, 2014, 02:22:47 am »

Is this restricted to 2 channel stereo?  Just installed the latest version of MC 20 to play with this and watching LEGO Marvel Super Heroes on Amazon Instant my AVR is showing Stereo.

But that might be because the stream from Amazon only contains 2 channel stereo.  Will try a film and see what's what.

Just tried Riddick as well and that's showing Stereo too...
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ldoodle

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« Reply #246 on: November 21, 2014, 03:21:43 am »

Hmmm. Watching Brave DVD which I know is 5.1 but it's showing as Stereo.....

EDIT: Ha ha, what an idiot. Brave default soundtrack is 2.0!!
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6233638

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« Reply #247 on: November 21, 2014, 11:25:18 am »

It changed a few versions ago. The driver is stereo-only right now.
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ldoodle

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Re: WDM Problems
« Reply #248 on: November 21, 2014, 03:14:29 pm »

Ah OK. That's cool, just wanted to make sure it wasn't something wrong my end.
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Stevr

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Re: WDM Problems
« Reply #249 on: November 22, 2014, 04:05:54 pm »

The new driver does not work on my system. No sound whatsoever unless I disable the driver and go back to original Realtek drivers.
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