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[Vocalpoint]

Hello,

Just doing a little maintenance on our server copy of MC - and I noticed a very troubling issue with dates. Specifically the date stamps that MC is applying to specific files.

As many other do - I noticed the issue when I clicked on my Recent Albums view - mine is very simple - I expect to see albums that were recently imported within the last 90 days - using the following criteria:



However - on the server instance of MC - I am seeing a ton of albums that were imported seemingly years ago - suddenly appearing in this view. All of them have an "imported" date of May 12, 2017 - which I do not understand at all as I clearly did not import these a week ago. Some albums that are appearing in the view that make no sense at all - here is one that was created in 2012, modified in 2013 but imported last week?:




Even more odd is what is happening with the Date Created field. Here is what I see on an album that i did import correctly on Feb 27, 2017:



Now - just yesterday - I updated the JUST album artwork to a 1000x1000 image that I found. The update was successful - but now MC thinks I "created" this album on the same day that I made a minor update to the file?

EDIT: I just checked about 30 albums that I updated the artwork on yesterday and today - and all of them have a Date Added date of either yesterday or today. Not making much sense?

Just so I am clear - what exactly does Date Created stand for within the MC universe?  The way I read it - I would expect the Date Created field to equal the Date Imported field - if the album is net new to the library. And I would expect this field to never change following a small edit. I would expect the Date Modified date to change (which it did - to the same value as shown above) But maybe I am misinterpreting what this field means?

I am very concerned with Date Imported field - luckily it only seems to have occurred once on May 12. And it seems to have only affected a very small section of the "A's" in my library. Date Imported was altered on Adele, Bryan Adams, Aleta Adams, A Fine Frenzy etc and a whole wack of "Assorted" albums and then suddenly stopped.

But I have no idea what MC was doing. Friday the 12th of May between 5:15pm and 5:25pm - was a work day and I was not making changes to MC at this time. Yet - I see a huge amount of files altered.

Is there any way to modify Date Imported back to a more realistic value so my library can be corrected?

Cheers,

VP

[Vocalpoint]

I am seeing yet more issues with this odd behavior.

In doing some maintenance over the weekend - I noticed that my Recent Albums view - again was pulling in albums that were imported years ago - but with date stamps in the Date Imported field that were stamped within the last two weeks.

One date that I managed to trace in the Windows Event log was a reboot to the system that occurred on June 17 @ 10:36am. That day I did restart our media computer and everything came up just fine. But what was not fine (and went un-noticed) was that 50-100 unique albums (out of 6500) - had their Date Imported date set to 06-17-2017 10:36am.

The media machine has Media Server running and it is set to auto-start and uses my admin account on the machine to place Media Center into Theater Mode so it's ready to roll the next time we want movies etc.

But what is going on with this Date Imported field? Why would MC suddenly change the Date Imported date on just a very tiny subset of albums - when these albums were already in MC and have been in the library for years?

Is there some tie-in between a system reboot and the Media Server component? Would love to figure out what is going on before MC slowly destroys my entire library following each reboot.

VP

[mwillems]

Are your files on a network storage device of some kind? Do you have auto-import enabled with fix broken links set to either "yes" or "protect missing drives"?  What you're describing is consistent with MC removing the library entries because it momentarily can't reach the storage medium, and then reimporting the albums when it can reach the medium (after having removed them).  This is especially likely as it started alphabetically (in the "A"s)

I used to have this exact issue occasionally, until I entirely disabled the "fix broken links" option in auto-import.  There was a thread about why the "protect missing drives" option wasn't working as expected, but I'm not sure we ever ran the issue entirely to ground.  I only turn it on when I'm deliberately trying to fix broken links and that solved the mysterious reimports.

So try disabling the fix broken links option in the auto-import options and see if that fixes it.

[Hilton]

Are your files on a network storage device of some kind? Do you have auto-import enabled with fix broken links set to either "yes" or "protect missing drives"?  What you're describing is consistent with MC removing the library entries because it momentarily can't reach the storage medium, and then reimporting the albums when it can reach the medium (after having removed them).  This is especially likely as it started alphabetically (in the "A"s)

I used to have this exact issue occasionally, until I entirely disabled the "fix broken links" option in auto-import.  There was a thread about why the "protect missing drives" option wasn't working as expected, but I'm not sure we ever ran the issue entirely to ground.  I only turn it on when I'm deliberately trying to fix broken links and that solved the mysterious reimports.

So try disabling the fix broken links option in the auto-import options and see if that fixes it.

I suspect you're right because I have had an intermittent issue with import dates being reset and this fits the profile for me with loosing access to media temporarily. I'll have to check my settings and try that - thanks @mwillems!

[Vocalpoint]

Are your files on a network storage device of some kind? Do you have auto-import enabled with fix broken links set to either "yes" or "protect missing drives"?  What you're describing is consistent with MC removing the library entries because it momentarily can't reach the storage medium, and then reimporting the albums when it can reach the medium (after having removed them).  This is especially likely as it started alphabetically (in the "A"s)

Awesome. Sounds bang on to what I have been seeing. I did have this setting on and it's off now. Will monitor and report back.

Much thanks!

Cheers,

VP

[Vocalpoint]

Back to this thread for a bit here today.

First - a bit of setup. Here at the house - I store ALL our FLAC files in a single location on our file server (SERVER)...in a folder called Music. In this folder are 26 additional folders - each representing a letter of the alphabet (A-Z).

With respect to Media Center - I have two main PC instances which access the above FLAC stash. One is personal workstation running it's own private copy of MC. The other box is our Media PC which servers music and movies to our theater room and several other PC's around the house. The HTPC runs Media Server and is set to constantly Auto Import any changes it sees coming from \\SERVER\Music

Both of these boxes use \\SERVER\MUSIC as their source for music

Now - over the weekend - I made some changes to maybe 500 songs in the master FLAC library and did so from my personal workstation. The bulk of these changes were simply changing song ratings. 4 stars to 2, 2 stars to none etc etc. I was happily assuming that all my changes were being "picked up" my the instance of MC on the HTPC and all would be cool.

Well - last night - I decided to check on my work and log into the HTPC via JRemote. I have a very specific set of playlists served up by Media Server and one of these playlists is called 2 Star Rock tracks. The end game is simple - show me a list of ALL songs on \\SERVER\MUSIC that have a rating of two stars. When I click on this list - I see about 250 songs show up. Which immediately raised some alarm bells - since my work on the weekend was to REMOVE all song ratings of 2 stars. I expected to see this list empty.

Then I started thing about an issue I raised a long while ago - documented here:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106403.msg740092.html#msg740092

It seems that the problems I was seeing way back then - are still present here in the last builds of v22.

Could turning off "Fix Broken Links" suddenly make MC Media Server (during Auto Import) ignore ALL tag changes to files that it is supposed to be monitoring?

This is a huge concern as I suddenly again cannot trust MC (on the HTPC) to correctly pick up changes to FLAC files made from my personal workstation.

Ideas? Thoughts?

VP

[Spike1000]

Do the two PCs work as client server with one as the MC Master and one as the client? (I'm not really sure from your description).

I think you have 2 independent copies of MC and one set of files on a share. It's really 'best practice' to run one MC database and have the PCs running as a MC master and the other(s) as client(s).

If you run as 2 independent PCs and have edited your FLAC file metadata outside a copy of MC a manual 'run auto update now' should pick the external changes you've made and update the local MC database.

Note: There's a trap for young players when it comes to editing tags on a MC client in a MC client server (master) setup.

Spike

[Vocalpoint]

I think you have 2 independent copies of MC and one set of files on a share. It's really 'best practice' to run one MC database and have the PCs running as a MC master and the other(s) as client(s).

Correct. There are two independent copies of MC and one set of master files.

Regarding "best practice" - running as a MC client is much too restricting for me in that the user is hamstringed with a number of key features being locked off. Cannot have that here as I need the full app at my disposal for many a task from massive tag updates, file movement to large swathes of cover art update etc.

If you run as 2 independent PCs and have edited your FLAC file metadata outside a copy of MC a manual 'run auto update now' should pick the external changes you've made and update the local MC database.

Indications are that this works some of the time if one actually presses Auto Update manually. But all external changes SHOULD be picked up automatically when Media Server scans the destination folder at it's regular interval and the "Update for External Changes" checkbox is on under the Auto Import section in Settings.

Seems that is not happening here - or rather I need to clarify - specifically only for changes to ratings stars. And maybe only in one direction? I think MC is working fine when a rating was blank or has increased (no stars to 1 star, 2 stars to 4 stars etc). But I sense there is still a major problem here for ratings "reduction" (4 to 2, 3 to 2, etc)

I will do more testing to confirm.

Cheers,

VP

[Spike1000]

running as a MC client is much too restricting for me in that the user is hamstringed with a number of key features being locked off. Cannot have that here as I need the full app at my disposal for many a task from massive tag updates, file movement to large swathes of cover art update etc.

I run in client server mode and it works for me. I use terminal services to access the 'master' MC PC when I need to so don't ever get 'hamstrung' from a client. Which key features are you missing with a client server setup? I understand from reading on this forum that if you use username and password authentication (rather than access key) between master and client tagging changes are written to the master. I can't comment on cover art changes, but I'd use terminal services back to the master for that anyway (not necessarily even from a PC/laptop that has MC installed) as I know that works. I also make tag/cover art changes external to MC (via MP3tag) and just manually run the auto import to bring MC into line; I've never had any issues taking that approach (even though I don't think it's officially recommended).

But all external changes SHOULD be picked up automatically when Media Server scans the destination folder at it's regular interval and the "Update for External Changes" checkbox is on under the Auto Import section in Settings.

Can't disagree with that except that this has come up on the forum a number of times that MC has difficulty accurately detecting file changes on NAS devices so there may be no solution from within MC. Have you tried updated firmware on your NAS device or contacting their support?

The other thing that has come up on the forum a number of times is that it appears to be very easily to accidentally change the star rating of a song simply by touching a number key (or is it a function key) or brushing the wrong place on the screen on a tablet while a song is playing. To this end people have created their own custom 'star rating' field to ensure consistency.

Spike

[Vocalpoint]

Which key features are you missing with a client server setup?

The biggie is F6 (Rename, Move and Copy). My personal workstatio n where all the "work" happens. All source intake, audio analysis, cover art, custom tagging etc. I have tried the client on a few occasion and it's a no go. Trust me - if it did do what I need I would be all over it

Can't disagree with that except that this has come up on the forum a number of times that MC has difficulty accurately detecting file changes on NAS devices so there may be no solution from within MC. Have you tried updated firmware on your NAS device or contacting their support?

My "NAS" is a standard Windows 2012R2 file server. Nothing fancy and nothing that MC should not be able pick changes up from. Everything here is standard Microsoft tech. No third party NAS software or anything else running.

Update - since my last post about a half hour ago - I cannot seem to get MC (The Media Server copy) - to not read a tag correctly. I have made about 30 ratings changes or so from my personal station and have been monitoring the media server by the minute (Via Remote Desktop).

I created a Recently Modified view and I let Auto Update do it's thing by the clock so no manually updating. All 30 changes have come up correct on the server.

Will continue to dig....

VP

[JimH]

My "NAS" is a standard Windows 2012R2 file server. Nothing fancy and nothing that MC should not be able pick changes up from. Everything here is standard Microsoft tech. No third party NAS software or anything else running.

It may not be the problem, but that OS is not one we support.

In spite of your reservations, the best setup would be to use Media Server.  You could import files from your "NAS" to the copy of MC that runs on your "workstation".

The problem you're reporting isn't a common one and we're not likely to spend any time on it.  Sorry.

[Vocalpoint]

It may not be the problem, but that OS is not one we support.

Jim - I think your assumptions are a tad incorrect. MC is not "running" on Windows Server. Windows Server is simply the OS running on our file server on the network. It simply stores FLAC files - that's it. There is no connection to MC whatsoever. All MC instances run under supported OS - Windows 10.

In spite of your reservations, the best setup would be to use Media Server.  You could import files from your "NAS" to the copy of MC that runs on your "workstation".

I have tried numerous times to justify using the client - it is simply not flexible enough for the way I need to work. My workstation instance of MC is used for things that have absolutely nothing to do with our HTPC client server version of MC. And I do these things with a frequency that far outweighs any use of the "client". Just the fact that F6 is not available is an instant deal-breaker. But I can see why you would not want that available via the client.

The problem you're reporting isn't a common one and we're not likely to spend any time on it.  Sorry.

The problem I am describing is an ongoing issue (reported in threads thru v20, v21 and now v22 of MC)

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109926.msg760660.html#msg760660
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106425.msg739971.html#msg739971
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,110511.msg763969.html#msg763969
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,109375.msg756993.html#msg756993

with Auto Import and specifically the functionality of the "Update for External Changes" checkbox.

Matt was kind enough to check in a fix or two for this right when v22 was in it's early stages - but I would think that you would want to ensure that this specific key function of Media Server is working properly for all customers in all situations?

VP

[Spike1000]

The problem I am describing is an ongoing issue with Auto Import and specifically the functionality of the "Update for External Changes" checkbox.

My guess (and it is a guess) is that the SMB protocol used for your share does work exactly the same as accessing a local drive when it comes MC detecting external changes. Yes, I know it's all Microsoft in your case, but the issue with changes not being detected on NAS devices has come up before. If a manual 'auto-update' doesn't do it for you or using a remote desktop session to the MC master in a client server setup so you can press F6 isn't what you want you may have to change your work flow or live with MC's limitations that have been there for you since V20. There will other ways to achieve a work flow that works for you, you may just to be a bit flexible or do some creative thinking around the problem. The solution will be out there.

Spike

[Vocalpoint]

My guess (and it is a guess) is that the SMB protocol used for your share does work exactly the same as accessing a local drive when it comes MC detecting external changes. Yes, I know it's all Microsoft in your case, but the issue with changes not being detected on NAS devices has come up before.

Spike - the frustrating part of this is that changes ARE detected almost all of the time. Like this morning. For each change I made in a 30 minute span - all were picked up correctly by Auto Import with 100% accuracy on the media server version of MC - so this does work. When it wants to

But then there are other times - like a few days ago - when I needed to do a brute force update by selecting 250 tracks and invoking "Update library from tags" - when I discovered these 250 files inexplicably were ignored by Auto Import for several days.  So it's hit or miss.

Another 100% certainty - if I manually press the Auto Import button on my toolbar on the Media Server version of MC - every change to every file is present and accounted for.

I think it's a matter of being more diligent in watching "Auto-import" activity on the Media Server library when I am doing big file changes like that - instead of trusting that Auto Import (even with the Update For External Changes checked) will do it's job properly 100% of the time.

VP