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[imeric]

The program will also automatically tag lossy files and files that are not 44,100x16x2 as not HDCD (with the latest build).

Hi Matt, I think the sentence above should be reworded to align with this:

25.0.71 (6/28/2019)
5. Changed: Files are no longer marked as dirty when they get flagged as not HDCD so they will not tag because of it.

It should be made clear in this post that files not requiring the analysis won't get tagged. (Lossy and anything lossless different than REDBOOK 44/16)
Thx

[imeric]

Hmmm, strange. I wonder why other songs weren't detected as HDCD? I probably should've re-ripped it when I was testing the analysis - I do know I own at least two HDCDs (though I already have decoded versions of both in my library that I did a year or so ago when I ripped them with dBpoweramp and their HDCD feature).

Only tracks 11-12-13-14 were tagged as HDCD for this Album (Beck-Mutation). I reran the analyis (by marking the other tracks to -1) and they returned 0 again with the latest beta build.

Does this mean not all tracks were encoded as HDCD?? I understand a lot of CDs were encoded with the HDCD flag but not encoded as such could it be track specific on an album and if so, MC is smart enough to find these?

I have a few other albums like this: Bran Van 3000 Glee (only 2 HDCD tracks) Johnny Cash The Essential only 5 tracks. A Madonna Greatest Hits tracks 5-8....

[dtc]

Does this mean not all tracks were encoded as HDCD?? I understand a lot of CDs were encoded with the HDCD flag but not encoded as such could it be track specific on an album and if so, MC is smart enough to find these?

Does the CD actually say HDCD on it? From what I can tell that CD was not labeled as a HDCD, so it is hard to know what it may have on it.  CDs definitely had some tracks encoded and some not.

EDIT: Also, foobar will tell you what HDCD encodings it found. If you have foobar, that might tell you something.

Matt added a check to look for actual changes rather than just markers. Detection before and after that change may be different.

[imeric]

Does the CD actually say HDCD on it? From what I can tell that CD was not labeled as a HDCD, so it is hard to know what it may have on it.  CDs definitely had some tracks encoded and some not.

EDIT: Also, foobar will tell you what HDCD encodings it found. If you have foobar, that might tell you something.

Matt added a check to look for actual changes rather than just markers. Detection before and after that change may be different.

Those CDs are hidden in a box somewhere in the basement so...No way I'll go try to find it ...
Ok I see Foobar is detecting HDCD (via Console so that is good and consistent with MC's HDCD tag that was created for those exact same tracks...)
But this raises a question as to why a tag is required to trigger the HDCD processing? I also read on the foobar HDCD component page ("Processing may now be disabled by adding a meta tag "HDCD" set to "no". This tag will completely bar instantiation of the decoder, which has the side effect of barring marked files from the scanner.") ...

EDIT: Trying to auto-answer my own question...For the same reason it is needed for replay gain...Right?

[dtc]

But this raises a question as to why a tag is required to trigger the HDCD processing?

I think the idea is to only run the software decoder when you know it will be useful. There is no reason to run it on non-HDCD tracks, which are the vast majority of what people have.  The easy way to do that is to just check a tag value. The HDCD detection can take a couple of seconds. You do not want to do that on the fly.

[dtc]

In foobar you can add this to the status bar to get the HDCD info.

 $if(%__hdcd%,' ('HDCD - pe:%__hdcd_peak_extend% tf:%__hdcd_transient_filter% gain:%__hdcd_gain%')',)

This would be a nice addition to Audio Path.

[DJLegba]

When I ripped Mutations with dBpoweramp a few years ago it marked all tracks with HDCD = 1. I just reran analysis with MC 25.0.68 and only track 11 was set to 1 (my disc only has 11 tracks). 1 through 10 were reset to 0. Downloaded and installed 25.0.71 and repeated, with the same result. Then I analyzed Beck's Sea Change, which I had also ripped with dBpoweramp. Before analysis, every track had HDCD=1. After analysis every track was reset to 0.

[dtc]

Beck's Sea Change is one of those albums that is sometimes listed as HDCD but I have also seen references that say that no HDCD techniques were actually applied.

[DivBy0]

on a similar note...Its strange that all of my Audio Fidelity cds that are clearly mark on the cd that they are encoded using Microsoft's HDCD, when ripped using db Poweramp, Foobar or JRiver MC, all rips indicate that none are encoded using HDCD when analyzed through JRiver MC or Foobar. ? So Very Sad 
Is it possible that the now defunct AF might have misrepresented their product?

Update to above...
Sorry for the diss AF, I doubled checked the cd's using my Oppo 105 and the Oppo does recognize them as an HDCD... Interesting....
The plot thickens

[dtc]

According to the HA iist, several AF HDCDs are labeled and marked at HDCD but do not actually have any peak extend or low level volume adjustments. The software decoders may determine that there is nothing for them to do, so report them as non-HDCD.  The Oppo may just be responding to the HDCD markers.

[dtc]

Pacific Microsonics produced two A-D/D-A converters that did the HDCD magic, the Model  One and the Model Two.  They are no longer made, but they are still very highly regarded. I know of a Model Two that is available for sale for $20,000 if anyone wants one.

[sacduser]

Using foobar HDCD scanner on Beck - Sea Change, I find HDCD marks, but no processing has actually been applied.

[DivBy0]

According to the HA iist, several AF HDCDs are labeled and marked at HDCD but do not actually have any peak extend or low level volume adjustments. The software decoders may determine that there is nothing for them to do, so report them as non-HDCD.  The Oppo may just be responding to the HDCD markers.

Yes, your probably correct. Strange though that the cd is internally flagged as HDCD, but no actual or special HDCD encoding is present. I guess I'll just have to wait to they release a 24bit version of the cd...
Speaking of which, I'm assuming any of my 24bit music flagged HDCD by JRiver MC are false positives?

[DivBy0]

Using foobar HDCD scanner on Beck - Sea Change, I find HDCD marks, but no processing has actually been applied.

You should get the 24bit 192kHz version....sounds so much better...

[imeric]

Lossy m4a songs (purchased from iTunes store) show up as needing the analysis (HDCD=-1)
Just like mp3 files they should automatically show as HDCD=0

[Awesome Donkey]

My guess why would be that m4a is the container format for both the lossy AAC and the lossless ALAC (Apple Lossless), it'll have to distinguish between them.

[imeric]

The library does since the Compression tag is different (ALAC) for lossless and (MP4 AAC) for lossy files.

[Matt]

Next build:
Changed: M4A files will be marked as not HDCD if the compression is set to "MP4 AAC".

Thanks for the suggestion.

[jason3]

Hi I am fairly certain that the Grateful Dead cd's are all HDCD.  I tried one I know is HDCD, I looked at the case to confirm, and it says "0" in the HDCD field after analyzing the audio.  I ripped with EAC just recently.  What am I doing wrong?

[contium]

According to the HA iist, several AF HDCDs are labeled and marked at HDCD but do not actually have any peak extend or low level volume adjustments. The software decoders may determine that there is nothing for them to do, so report them as non-HDCD.  The Oppo may just be responding to the HDCD markers.

It would be nice if MC could report if the HDCD marker is there plus if peak extend and/or low level volume adjustments are present.

[imeric]

It would be nice if MC could report if the HDCD marker is there plus if peak extend and/or low level volume adjustments are present.

+1

[rsg]

Hi I am fairly certain that the Grateful Dead cd's are all HDCD.  I tried one I know is HDCD, I looked at the case to confirm, and it says "0" in the HDCD field after analyzing the audio.  I ripped with EAC just recently.  What am I doing wrong?

Me too. I ran the MC 'Analyze Audio' tool for all 33 of my Grateful Dead albums and only 6 were identified as HDCD, even though the CD packaging states that others are HDCD. Only these ones were identified as HDCD: Live at the Cow Palace, To Terrapin, Nightfall of Diamonds, Dozin' at the Knick, The Arista Years, Rocking the Cradle

Better luck with Joni Mitchell: 8 HDCD albums out of 9 (not Both Sides Now even though it is listed in Goodwin's High End (maybe a different release).

[Vocalpoint]

What is up with .71 anyway. I followed the instructions to essentially turn off anything to do with HDCD - yet - here is a fresh rip of a CD done minutes ago - done in dbPowerAmp - and even when I simply look into the folder with MC (using Drives and Devices->Explorer) the HDCD flag is already set? (see attachment)

I have not done an audio analysis or anything yet. Just clicked on the folder to view the files.

This means that I need to reset that flag on every track I actually decide to import. Sigh.

Am I missing something major here?

VP

[dtc]

The -1 is a flag to indicate that the track has not been analyzed. 0 Means analyzed and not found. 1 means analyzed and found.  By default, any lossless tracks are set to -1 before they are analyzed.

[Vocalpoint]

The -1 is a flag to indicate that the track has not been analyzed. 0 Means analyzed and not found. 1 means analyzed and found.  By default, any lossless tracks are set to -1 before they are analyzed.

Whew! OK - makes sense. Thanks so much for the update.

Cheers!

VP

[Bernhard]

HDCD playback is a really nice new feature!
It would make me even more happy, if I could scan for HDCD albums without doing a full audio analysis. 

[Awesome Donkey]

It would me even more happy, if I could scan for HDCD albums without doing a full audio analysis. 

Not possible I'm afraid. It has to analyze the file(s), looking for specific things that HDCD uses.

[JimH]

HDCD playback is a really nice new feature!
It would make me even more happy, if I could scan for HDCD albums without doing a full audio analysis. 

It's required, but you can run it on any sub-set of tracks you select.

[dtc]

HDCD playback is a really nice new feature!
It would make me even more happy, if I could scan for HDCD albums without doing a full audio analysis. 

The developers decided that they would not separate HDCD analysis from the previous audio analysis (R128 and other volume related analyses). You have to run both, even though they are not related.

[Bernhard]

The developers decided that they would not separate HDCD analysis from the previous audio analysis (R128 and other volume related analyses). You have to run both, even though they are not related.

Thanks. It is my understanding too.

It's required, but you can run it on any sub-set of tracks you select.

Sure, I could just let it scan all my 16/44,1 files. Thanks again.
It will lead to many not needed tags in my audio files. I will have to accept it.

[lukedaugherty11]

Hi I am fairly certain that the Grateful Dead cd's are all HDCD.  I tried one I know is HDCD, I looked at the case to confirm, and it says "0" in the HDCD field after analyzing the audio.  I ripped with EAC just recently.  What am I doing wrong?

I have all the albums from two recent box sets. All are marked HDCD and none are being recognized by jriver. I also have dozens of live Dead cd's (released after Jerry died) and many of those do scan as HDCD.

Also saw the issue with Tool Lateralus. Only the first track is recognized.

[EdBrady]

It will lead to many not needed tags in my audio files. I will have to accept it.

It won't write anything to the tags if you tell it not to.

Go to Tools -> options -> library & folders -> manage library fields... then select the desired field, and un-check option "Save in file tags (when possible)."

[BobSmith8901]

Another MC perk. Just did the audio analyzer and discovered (or re-discovered) that my Mark Isham  Miles Remembered: The Silent Way Project that I'd ripped to FLAC years ago was recorded as an HDCD. Went to the CD rack and there it was in the notes and on the CD: HDCD with a reference to Pacific Microsonics. I'm pretty sure this is the first time I'm hearing actual HDCD playback seeing as my CD player is a circa-1989 Denon DCD-1520. I don't honestly remember if I had been aware of its HDCD status when I bought it. Just wanted the music. It has the "1" in the column...listening to it now and it does sound good. Out of all the CDs ripped to FLAC it's the only one.

Edit: Almost forgot, another "1" from the ripped archives, from the CD John Coltrane "A Love Supreme", but only the tune "Part 1: Acknowledgment (live)". The rest of the tracks don't analyze as HDCD. Strange. I don't have the physical anymore so I don't know what version it is, although some kind of remaster from 2002.

Edit #2, 11 Aug:I actually found my physical copy of John Coltrane A Love Supreme. Didn't know I still had it. It's a 2-CD set from Impulse! released in 2002 with the original studio recording on disc one and a live performance and alternate takes on disc two. Glad I found it as it is a really gorgeous set with lots of detail about the original recording and digital transfers, etc.

I was just really curious about that single recognized HDCD cut as mentioned above so I re-ripped both discs in Media Center to see what the results would be. It turns out this rip got the same results as the original years ago.

It still recognizes (on disc two) the cut "Part 1: Acknowledgment (live)" as an HDCD cut with a "1" in the column, and all of the others on both discs as standard 16/44.1 with "0" in the HDCD column. As disc two came from a variety of original sources according to the liner notes and it's possible there's some undocumented digital mastering done to this and other tracks,  I suppose one of the Pacific Microsonics digital mastering units might have been involved or there was some other digital info that got into the cut that MC sees as showing it as HDCD. I don't know much about this topic so I'm probably missing something here.

[pschelbert]

Hi

I analyzed all files , took a while (18h).
I discovered anout 2 albums, Dire Straits and one with Blues. I didn't know that.
However HDCD analysis does not hurt at all nice to have this feature included.

Peter

[wedgeworld1701]

I apologize if I missed anyone addressing the following question. I just purchased JRiver after having used the trial version for a time. Just discovered this about the HDCD info.

So a CD with HDCD still rips as 16/44.1 but the rip holds the HDCD info which JRiver can analyze and play.
But is there any way to export the ripped file with extra bitrate that the HDCDs are supposed to have (If I understand HDCD correctly).

I use JRiver in my office but not in my main stereo which I play discs and audio from a Oppo 105D. It can read HDCD discs but I want to play files and have always wanted to rip the full quality from my HDCDs to WAV or AIFF files. I have heard this can be done but I usually see it for PC and not for MAC.

Any help is appreciated but I am certainly happy JRiver has this function. Already analyzed some files (Camel, Chris Isaak, The Cars, Tom Petty, Spocks Bear, Van Halen, YES, Roxy Music, etc).
Thanks

[JimH]

Even at that bitrate and sample rate, the HDCD information may be there.  Start here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/HDCD

[dtc]

So a CD with HDCD still rips as 16/44.1 but the rip holds the HDCD info which JRiver can analyze and play.
But is there any way to export the ripped file with extra bitrate that the HDCDs are supposed to have (If I understand HDCD correctly).

MC decodes the HDCD data on playback but it does not provide any easy way to send the decoded data to a file.  To do it with MC you need to capture the output stream that is being sent to the DAC. That is doable but requires extra steps.

The easiest way to send the decoded data to a file is to use dBpoweramp to do the ripping and decoding.

The ability to create a HDCD decoded file would be a useful addition to MC.

[dtc]

Even at that bitrate and sample rate, the HDCD information may be there.  Start here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/HDCD

That is a circular reference back to this thread.

[wedgeworld1701]

The easiest way to send the decoded data to a file is to use dBpoweramp to do the ripping and decoding.
The ability to create a HDCD decoded file would be a useful addition to MC.

Thank you, and I agree it would be nice.

I did just notice that more than half of my HDCD rips from CDs that say HDCD on them and register as HDCD in my Oppo 105 are not showing as HDCD in MC25. Going to try ripping them again to see if I get a change.

[minogue]

I am amazed how good HDCD's sound!

Larks' Tongues in Aspic. A totally different experience in HDCD. The sound between channels is so distinct that you understand it isn't coming from the left or right, but 20 degrees from the left!!

Too bad this tech didn't last long! Maybe it can make a comeback?

Thanks JRiver for allowing me to experience it!

Cheers,
Kyle

[bob]

Thank you, and I agree it would be nice.

I did just notice that more than half of my HDCD rips from CDs that say HDCD on them and register as HDCD in my Oppo 105 are not showing as HDCD in MC25. Going to try ripping them again to see if I get a change.

Did you rip them in MC? What is the CD?
Could you zip and email a short track to bob (at) jriver (dot) com?
Thanks.

[born2run]

I've opted into HDCD and playback and analysed my audio files and the player is not detecting any HDCD files. I have a number of Audio Fidelity discs and some that are identified as HDCD (some Neil Young, Springsteen's Tracks) but they're given '0' for their tags. All my rips have been done using JRiver over the years in secure mode. I manually set a rip to '1' and it says 'process HDCD' when I look at any changes. Any advice?

[JimH]

What is the full version of MC?

[born2run]

What is the full version of MC?

MC25.0.114 (64bit)

[dtc]

You might look at this list and see if your CDs are listed.  If they are listed as having HDCD detected, then that could indicate that there is either something wrong with your original rips or something wrong with the MC detection.  I do remember that Matt added some logic to determine if there was a HDCD marker but no actual HDCD data.  That may be the case here.

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=List_of_HDCD-encoded_Compact_Discs

Note that there is an option to sort by title. You may need to do that to get the Neil Young albums grouped together.

There is another list of HDCDs here

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/hdcd.htm

[born2run]

Well the Audio Fidelity discs are on the list and media center is not recognising them as HDCD after analysis

[dtc]

I guess your options are to re-rip one of the CDs and see if that changes anything. Or  try dBpoweramp and see if it recognizes it as a HDCD. Or use foobar, hdcd.exe or ffmpeg and see if they recognize it.  As I said, Matt put some logic in to detect tracks that had HDCD markers but did not use any HDCD features.  That may be what is happening. Matt or someone from JRiver would have to determine that.

[born2run]

I re-ripped the Audio Fidelity CD of The Doobie Brothers Minute By Minute which is HDCD encoded in secure mode and after analysis it is not recognised as HDCD
I don't have dBpoweramp as one of the reasons I like JRiver is because it was one program that does everything.

[bob]

I re-ripped the Audio Fidelity CD of The Doobie Brothers Minute By Minute which is HDCD encoded in secure mode and after analysis it is not recognised as HDCD
I don't have dBpoweramp as one of the reasons I like JRiver is because it was one program that does everything.

Would you mind sharing a sort track via an email or firefox send?

[fitbrit]

Seeing similar behaviour on a customer's system; his HDCDs are being tagged as 0 even after a recent re-rip. MC 25 114 64-bit. His DAC has an indicator light that illuminates when it's getting an HDCD signal. It remains off, and the Audio path is not indicating any HDCD trace at all. THe files were ripped as wavs in dBpoweramp, leaving everything as the source.