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[JimH]

This is your turn to tell us where we've gone wrong, missed the boat, spent months in the weeds.   

We rely on you to keep an eye on the market and trends.  So tell us where we blew it and what might make JRiver better.

Here are some trends I see, just to give you a start.

On the audio side, streaming is much more important than it was five years ago.  Ironically, this is an area we worked in a lot about a decade ago.  We built services for Best Buy, MTV, Televisa, and others.  We know how to do it.  We also know how difficult it is for the services to make money.  We've witnessed this first hand and seen millions of dollars wasted.  So we've kept our powder dry, waiting for the right moment.   We've spent a lot of time on it recently with Radio JRiver, Cloudplay, and support for Radio Paradise.  Yes, we're aware of Amazon Music HD.

Phones are much more important now.  We've supported them as well as we were able, but there are millions of apps and very few make much money.  Those that have gained a big following have often been purchased.  Instagram and Whatsapp by Facebook, for example.

TV has drifted toward movie services like Netflix and Amazon.  Rights issues prevent us from doing much more than we currently do.  Anybody remember when we had nice support for Netflix in MC?  Netflix pulled their API, probably to please the movie studios.

Cloud services have exploded.  We'd love to support more, but there are so many ...

Intra-home device support is important.  Record or download to a server, view or listen on another device, in another location.

User interface issues always come up in these discussions.  We always appreciate specific suggestions.

Please tell us what we need to do to make JRiver a more perfect media world.

[wer]

Ok, I'll bite.

Speaking from my own personal perspective, there are lots of competing products that offer 10 foot interfaces (AppleTV, Roku, etc).  Theater View needs to be improved and made slicker, with better view building.  The way a user has to learn to build theater views is dreadful.  Along with that, networking capabilities and compatibility need to be augmented, so that everything networking related is easier, so it is easier for a user to make MC their home media hub.  MC is capable here, but the user experience lags.

Where you've really blown it is in documentation.  Over the last two months, I've demo'd MC to over nearly 100 people at Audio society meetings.  I think two people have bought it.  Everyone else complained the learning curve was "impossible" and that there was basically no documentation.  Many people contacted me weeks later saying they'd tried the program, but it was just too hard to make use of its features and that without documentation they were stymied, so they were giving up.  The fact is, the documentation and on-line help situation for MC is a joke, a bad one, and you lose sales over it.

I know I've made the argument before that documentation is important, and that you don't care and believe differently.  But you asked, so I'm telling you.

Best wishes,

Will

[BigSpider]

+1 for @wer. A good pdf document to download and read would be helpful for many users and shouldn't cost too much to produce.

[JimH]

Wer,
Thanks.  I started a thread on documentation here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122288.0.html

[Moe]

I agree with pretty much everything Wer said. 

If you want to look at documentation done right, check out directory opus

Theater View pretty much looks exactly like it did when I started using the software 15 years ago.  We made some strides here recently with the ability to add images easily (thank you).  I felt like we had your ears for furthering the improvement,  but lately it seems like you all have moved on to other things and we are left with the start of something that could be great. 

I recently installed Plex, purely so I could stream music to my Alexa devices (another area you are falling behind your competition on).  I was blown away how by easy everything was.  I know that there is trade-off between ease of use and flexibility, and I love the flexibility we have here.  But that doesn't change how easy Plex was.  I had Plex up and running on my mom's TV within minutes and she figured out how to use it very quickly.

I am going to stick my neck out here a bit.  Jim, you ask this kind of question once a year or so.  Every time you do you immediately go on the defensive.  You've already done it with your lack of documentation challenge.  I get it, it's your baby and you don't like hearing people saying bad things about it.  But I urge you to listen with an open mind to what people are saying.  Using your documentation argument, even if the documentation is there, people find it hard to find/use.  Something is still lacking. 

You don't have to agree with what everyone is saying, but realize that they are saying it for a reason.

[jmone]

My 2c.  I see the market for media players over the years have moved to a couple of end points:

Mass Market:  Think Roku, Dongles, Smart TVs / Speakers etc.  Single unified UI that can pull content from a range of on-line services.  Pop in your account details for these and you are away.  Cheap, easy, and most importantly they just work but with very few (if any) options to tweak.  If all you care about is a big library of content rather than high quality Audio/Video then these are the way to go.  This also appeals to the portable content consumption where users are firing up apps for each of their services on Platforms like iOS/Android/Browsers.

Audiophile/Videophile Market:  Much smaller market but users tend to have deeper pockets.  Users care much more about the quality of the content than having access to everything ever produced.  Costs a lot more in both time and money to get this "right" and part of the fun is the never ending process to "get it right". 

These don't have to be mutually exclusive but as the Streaming Content providers deprecated (or haven't released) their public API's then it seems to have gone this way.  Of course, all the HW Mfrs that support these services must be using an API and these companies must have some form of on-boarding process and contacts for how it works.  If the aim is to get access for these libraries of content, then some ideas:
- Has JRiver approached Netflix, Amazon, Spotify etc etc to ask what is required (and the cost) to directly integrate their services into MC?
- Could more work be done to launch / control Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, etc etc from MC (eg MC as a skin over their native apps)?
- The WDM driver works for Audio, but how about a WDM Driver for Video as well (to capture both video and audio content from native apps and route them through MC's processing)?  This is similar to what madshi's Envy is trying to do with Video Processing but with a HW box to replace the HTPC approach.

[JimH]

Split WDM Limits

[JimH]

I am going to stick my neck out here a bit.  Jim, you ask this kind of question once a year or so.  Every time you do you immediately go on the defensive.  You've already done it with your lack of documentation challenge.  I get it, it's your baby and you don't like hearing people saying bad things about it.  But I urge you to listen with an open mind to what people are saying.  Using your documentation argument, even if the documentation is there, people find it hard to find/use.  Something is still lacking. 

You don't have to agree with what everyone is saying, but realize that they are saying it for a reason.

I'm splitting things that require discussion.  I'm sorry if that isn't to your liking. 

I don't consider documentation "Big Picture". 

[darichman]

I can't say I'm abreast of what way the mass market is going, but can speak for what is happening re new directions in my household at least, and where MC could be more useful than it currently is.

Streaming, Casting, Home
We're now heavily invested in the Google Home infrastructure. My wife can say to my home hub 'play [movie] in netflix on the TV' or 'play [song by the wiggles] in Locke's room' and it just works. I much prefer my MC media library over my netflix one, but there is a feeling by the rest of the family that everything I have in MC is 'locked away'. I know this is not true as there are a bunch of ways I can get stuff to the TV or speakers, but this still seems to represent a barrier for the other members of the household. So tighter integration with modern home interfaces, from the phone or tablet, I guess?

Photos, Social Media
Similarly, Google Photos is getting a pretty good workout by most of my friends and family. It's nowhere near as flexible as MC's library features for tagging or organisation, so will never replace MC for me, but the sharing, facetagging, streaming to home devices from Google Photos can't be beat at the moment. I'd like my MC library to play more nicely with Google photos. This is, I'm sure, a huge (impossible?) ask, but where I see MC in the equation for us, is the more comprehensive & granular repository, tagging and organisation beast, the place I import all my photos, process them and then launch the ones I want to to any other platforms (social media, photo clouds etc) including Google Photos. I want to access these from my phone when I'm out and about, as I can with my Google Photos. Some suggestions for how MC could be helpful here: A more enriched app version that helps me do the above: tagging, sharing, casting etc. Either the desktop or app version would allow me to access all the photos/home videos in my library, stream them in the home and share them to other apps/platforms (including google photos) and keep track of what I've shared.

Not sure of wider applicability, but I imagine the above could both be really useful to many users. Thank for asking us.

[JimH]

I can't say I'm abreast of what way the mass market is going, but can speak for what is happening re new directions in my household at least, and where MC could be more useful than it currently is.

Streaming, Casting, Home
We're now heavily invested in the Google Home infrastructure. My wife can say to my home hub 'play [movie] in netflix on the TV' or 'play [song by the wiggles] in Locke's room' and it just works. I much prefer my MC media library over my netflix one, but there is a feeling by the rest of the family that everything I have in MC is 'locked away'. I know this is not true as there are a bunch of ways I can get stuff to the TV or speakers, but this still seems to represent a barrier for the other members of the household. So tighter integration with modern home interfaces, from the phone or tablet, I guess?

Photos, Social Media
Similarly, Google Photos is getting a pretty good workout by most of my friends and family. It's nowhere near as flexible as MC's library features for tagging or organisation, so will never replace MC for me, but the sharing, facetagging, streaming to home devices from Google Photos can't be beat at the moment. I'd like my MC library to play more nicely with Google photos. This is, I'm sure, a huge (impossible?) ask, but where I see MC in the equation for us, is the more comprehensive & granular repository, tagging and organisation beast, the place I import all my photos, process them and then launch the ones I want to to any other platforms (social media, photo clouds etc) including Google Photos. I want to access these from my phone when I'm out and about, as I can with my Google Photos. Some suggestions for how MC could be helpful here: A more enriched app version that helps me do the above: tagging, sharing, casting etc. Either the desktop or app version would allow me to access all the photos/home videos in my library, stream them in the home and share them to other apps/platforms (including google photos) and keep track of what I've shared.

Not sure of wider applicability, but I imagine the above could both be really useful to many users. Thank for asking us.

That's really helpful.  Thanks.  It also points out one of the major obstacles we have.  There are multiple platforms of devices now: Apple, Google, Amazon, Sonos, etc.  Each is different and not always open to developers.  They're almost equivalent to an OS.  I'd love to support them all, but that's not going to happen.  Choosing one is probably better than doing nothing.  Maybe I'll start a poll.

[JimH]

My 2c.  I see the market for media players over the years have moved to a couple of end points:

Mass Market:  Think Roku, Dongles, Smart TVs / Speakers etc.  Single unified UI that can pull content from a range of on-line services.  Pop in your account details for these and you are away.  Cheap, easy, and most importantly they just work but with very few (if any) options to tweak.  If all you care about is a big library of content rather than high quality Audio/Video then these are the way to go.  This also appeals to the portable content consumption where users are firing up apps for each of their services on Platforms like iOS/Android/Browsers.

Audiophile/Videophile Market:  Much smaller market but users tend to have deeper pockets.  Users care much more about the quality of the content than having access to everything ever produced.  Costs a lot more in both time and money to get this "right" and part of the fun is the never ending process to "get it right". 

These don't have to be mutually exclusive but as the Streaming Content providers deprecated (or haven't released) their public API's then it seems to have gone this way.  Of course, all the HW Mfrs that support these services must be using an API and these companies must have some form of on-boarding process and contacts for how it works.  If the aim is to get access for these libraries of content, then some ideas:
- Has JRiver approached Netflix, Amazon, Spotify etc etc to ask what is required (and the cost) to directly integrate their services into MC?
- Could more work be done to launch / control Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, etc etc from MC (eg MC as a skin over their native apps)?
- The WDM driver works for Audio, but how about a WDM Driver for Video as well (to capture both video and audio content from native apps and route them through MC's processing)?  This is similar to what madshi's Envy is trying to do with Video Processing but with a HW box to replace the HTPC approach.

I agree with your thinking.  Yes, we've approached Netflix and Amazon, from time to time.  Do you really want Spotify?

Those companies have a plan, and if you're not part of it, you get polite responses at best, but no action.  Having worked with other big companies, it's usually a mystery who's in charge, even if you're on the inside.  And it changes every couple of years.  Unless you're Reed Hastings or Jeff Bezos.

The voice of users like you are probably more of a factor.

[JimH]

Split Slide Show Requests

[tij]

That's really helpful.  Thanks.  It also points out one of the major obstacles we have.  There are multiple platforms of devices now: Apple, Google, Amazon, Sonos, etc.  Each is different and not always open to developers.  They're almost equivalent to an OS.  I'd love to support them all, but that's not going to happen.  Choosing one is probably better than doing nothing.  Maybe I'll start a poll.

I think Sonos support AirPlay now ... most receivers support google cast and Apple airplay ... what Rogue Amoeba did is interesting, able to cast to both Airplay and Chromecast at same time in sync

Can I put 2 votes in the coming poll? 😬

[Manfred]

I think to get a Big Picture one has to understand the usage of MC‘s user base.

I have MC, Roon, Apple TV 4k, Qobuz & Amazon Prime as Streaming services and Apple for also buying or rent a movie.

My usage profile (best guess) is:

- MC: 131 Series (20 year history, ripped optical media small growth); 481 Movies (20 year history, ripped optical media small growth); 191 Music Concerts (76 BD, 17 DVD, other are Mediathek downloads, ripped optical media larger growing); 13641 Audio Tracks with ~4000 High Res Tracks in different formats including 275 DSD tracks (audio has 35 years history, 1st CD was 'Brothers in Arms').

- Amazon Prime:  16 Series; >50 Movies

- Roon: Use it sometimes to explore new music through Qobuz, but for local music I always use MC (SQ is simply better)

- Qobuz: use it when business travelling and sleeping in a Hotel (~80 times a year) or for exploring new music using Roon

- Apple TV 4k: Always use it for Amazon Prime (UI/Ux experience is simply better than on my LG Smart TV); 5 Movies (Apple); Infuse for testing and compare it to MC.

Market goes towards streaming over many endpoints Apple TV 4k,  Roku, NVIDIA Shield, Amazon Streaming Devices etc.; for Music ROON RAAT, DLNA/UPnP endpoints like Linn, Devialet etc. 

Music or video content is streamed from multiple service providers, which will get problematic for the end users.  They will will to begin to hate it, that ones has to do an additional monthly subscription only to view a special movie or series. How that will converge, the future will tell us.

From an architecture PoV it is currently not possible to use local MC based server rendering and then stream video over IP  to an end point. If that would be possible the Endpoints are mostly controllers to deliver the UI/Ux experience.  But that is currently not possible, so therefor the MC team has to develop/adapt different video engines for Shield, Windows, MAC. I have also my RO HQ/Win10 based video renderer in the living room using Theatre View or JRemote to control MC on the server.

For SQ, video quality MC is really the best for me and I have also tried Plex and Kodi, Roon, Infuse. Also Managing all local media content at a central point is really great. The challange will be how to align or integrate MC to all the smart devices around our planet. Apple TV 4k and one or more Android based devices would be my choice.

[dtc]

I look at three main areas - inputs, outputs and user interface.  All of these have changed over the recent past. We are no longer tied to a single one of any of these. Increasingly I go to people's houses who simply speak to their Alexa and select music to play.  These are people with no great computer skills. Even the phone interface to your music is becoming passé for many.  Increasingly the users simply do not have the skills or the desire to learn the complexity of JRiver or any other traditional media player.

Inputs - this is an obvious one. We now have a combination of our own material and streaming sources. The streaming sources increase our options far beyond anything we can collect ourselves. If the option is not available in JRiver, people will go outside JRiver to get it. I understand all the challenges of integrating streaming services, but with Amazon in the mix now with CD quality, it may really change the game. Cloudplay just cannot compete with the streaming services for depth and breath of material. 

In addition, you can use streaming services like Amazon Music in multiple locations, without having to worry about port forwarding and other arcane computer issues.  Streaming our own JRiver music from the cloud would be an interesting option. That would eliminate the port forwarding/fire wall issues with the server and make the music much more portable for the average user.

Pandora started its streaming system with a highly sophisticated algorithm for doing radio stations based on a seed artist. Nobody else has really equaled it. That type of option should a central part of all music services going forward. And, it should be voice activated.

Outputs - Traditionally we have had a dedicated set of speakers. With Sonus and Bluetooth speakers and Amazon Echos we have all sorts of options beyond our dedicated setup. Users want to be able to easily direct their music to any number of speaker options, many of which are not hard wired.  In particular, Sonus has become very popular and very easy to use. They tie music streaming to their easy to move and install wireless speakers. It is the new paradigm for many.  DLNA is widely supported but it is still pretty much a traditional device service. It can work with Sonus speakers, but you lose the syncing that Sonus provides, since it does not see the Sonus grouping. Casting is also very popular but is not sufficient with the popularity of Alexa.  JRemote and Gizmo supporting casting, but it would be nice to have it in the main program also.

User Interface -  The user interface is increasing voice rather than a screen and/or keyboard. Even the GUI is becoming obsolete. Alexa and Siri have changed that in the home. Increasing people just say Alexa play soft jazz or Alexa play Katy Perry.    House Band is a decent first step at a verbal interface, but it is limited and third party.  I really think the UI development should be focused on a voice interface, through Alexa, Google Assist as well as on phones. For example, JRemote with a voice interface would be very interesting.

All of these areas are challenging because the modern paradigm cannot be done within a closed system except by a few big companies. Increasingly, JRiver will need to tie to them or become a island.  As Jim just said, they cannot tie to all of them, but a few strategic partners would greatly expand the usability.   Without that, for me, JRiver will become the database for my music but the UI and outputs will go elsewhere except when I have dedicated listening session of my own music on my hardwired audiophile system.

That said, other companies have their challenges. With Sonus, I can assess Amazon and my own computer music, but the Sonus UI is extremely limited and it does not offer any database services other than reading the files off my computer.  Likewise the Amazon (or Tidal) UI are limited and the ability to send output to different speaker systems is also limited.

So, what would I recommend as a strategic direction? A cloud based option that combines my own music with streaming services, with a voice driven UI option (including Alexa and maybe Google) that will seamlessly output to dedicated speakers, Sonus and Bluetooth all without the complexities like port forwarding and DLNA. It just needs to work.  Easy to wish for - but very hard to implement, both technically and from a partnering perspective.  Note I say option, since this would have to co-exist with the richness of the current offering, which is really unsurpassed as a traditional media system.

[JimH]

dtc,
Lots of useful and interesting thoughts.  Thank you.  Just a couple of comments.

I'm not convinced yet that voice control is so important in a home.  I know there are a lot of people who think it is, but that was also true of 3D.  After the novelty wears off, will most people use it day to day?  Are they just showing off their new technology or will it stick?  I don't know.

Houseband is well regarded and does the job.  If you're sold on voice control, I think you'd want to use it.  If not, why not?

Cloudplay doesn't have the "depth and breadth" of a major service, it's true.  But it has a ton of music.  And it is a way for you to store your own music in the cloud, plus discover other music.  If you don't use it, why not? 

I'm really interested in your reasons, not trying to be defensive.

[Awesome Donkey]

Where you've really blown it is in documentation.  Over the last two months, I've demo'd MC to over nearly 100 people at Audio society meetings.  I think two people have bought it.  Everyone else complained the learning curve was "impossible" and that there was basically no documentation.  Many people contacted me weeks later saying they'd tried the program, but it was just too hard to make use of its features and that without documentation they were stymied, so they were giving up.  The fact is, the documentation and on-line help situation for MC is a joke, a bad one, and you lose sales over it.

I don't think documentation (or lack of) is the issue when it comes to the learning curve. I think some potential users are overwhelmed by the amount of options MC has any how many steps it takes to accomplish something which seems to them should be "simple to accomplish", like enable DSD playback via bitstreaming or setting up media network/DLNA or even setting up auto-import.

What I honestly think would help more is taking tasks in MC that takes several steps to accomplish, and simplify them as a single button or toggle.

Even better would be a "Getting Started" wizard that pops up when you first install and start MC, going through multiple steps where the most commonly used options can be easily set for new users, so they at least they have a starting point. Of course, there should be a Skip or Maybe Later button or something like that.

First step in a Getting Started wizard could be called "Audio Device" which has a drop down menu of all audio devices on the system, which will allow the user to pick the audio output. From there once you select an audio device to output with, and below that another drop down menu could be enabled, allowing users to easily choose with audio driver they want to use with their audio device to output with (with whatever is available); DirectSound, WASAPI, WASAPI Exclusive, ASIO, Kernel Streaming, etc. And below that could be several commonly used audio options, like a "Enable DSD" checkbox that enables DSD bitstreaming (and any other settings needed with it) with the selected audio device used for output. You can also add the "Enable Audio Only Mode" checkbox here too (give a quick explanation of what the box does below it) which skips video and image related steps if it's enabled.

Second step in a Getting Started wizard logically would be setting up auto-import (with an option to skip that step, if the user desires). Give simple options, like a choose directory button and path, and maybe add a + button to add additional paths. Beside each selected path in the list there could be an edit button (I'd call it Settings or Customize), which brings up the Folder Options dialog, allowing users to choose what type(s) of files they want to import. And finally, below the selected directory/directories, there could be a couple extra check boxes, including a check box for "Build thumbnails" and "Analyze audio for audio files" which sets those up.

Third step in a Getting Started wizard could be Media Network. Trying to make this as simple as possible without overwhelming the user with lots of options would probably be a good idea. Give options to enable Media Network, setup Media Network (with simple options given), test Media Network, etc. The idea here would be helping the user enable and use Media Network without needing to read any of the documentation.

Fourth step in a Getting Started wizard would be video related. Enabling Red October or Red October HQ (and give quick descriptions of each setting) along with other commonly used video options.

Fifth step in a Getting Started wizard could be images related. Or streaming related, like give options for enabling CloudPlay and Radio JRiver (and Radio Paradise, etc.) and setting those up.

Final step could be links to the wiki (including article links for getting started. audio setup, etc.) and forums. Or something like that.

At least, with these ideas it'd take some of the mystique out of a brand new user trying MC for the first time and they could easily (and most importantly painlessly) get started using MC pretty quickly. You could even add a Getting Started menu item to one of the menus (File?) so a user can go through the wizard once again if desired. I honestly think having this could help potential users.

[arcspin]

Hi and thank you for asking,
I use JRiver watching movies together with madVR on a JVC X5500 projector.
The ability to use madVR and Soulnights Dynamic Tone mapping (DTM) is crucial for watching UHD content with a projector outputting around 100 nits and to be able to use their DTM algorithms on Netflix and other streaming services thru JRiver would of course be great. And yes, I see that you try to approach them and I thank you for your persistence.

I see a lot of great work with JRiver user interface and I watch with envy when seasoned members of this forum give examples of one great interface after another.

My next suggestion for the big picture would therefor be for an updated custom tooltips and theater view. It might not seem like a big picture but never underestimate a great looking and at the same time informative user interface.

I would like to underline that JRiver is a rock-solid media player that never has caused me any problem playing video or music files. That must still be the priority for JRiver everything else comes second.

Thank you for an excellent media center!

[Moe]

Houseband is well regarded and does the job.  If you're sold on voice control, I think you'd want to use it.  If not, why not?

Houseband is a good start but it's lacking in several key areas.

You can't stream music from JRiver to your Alexa devices.  This is by far the biggest issue and something the competition can do.

If you run a library server you have to choose whether or not you want to be able to sync changes between a client and the server or have House Band function.   

House Band doesn't display anything on Echo devices that have a screen.

[JimH]

My next suggestion for the big picture would therefor be for an updated custom tooltips and theater view. It might not seem like a big picture but never underestimate a great looking and at the same time informative user interface.

Could you start a thread on that with more details?  Or bump one if you've already done so.

Thanks for the kind words.

[arcspin]

I humbly point to the direction of this thread.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,119385.0.html

and then of course be able to modify the interface to my specific liking ;o)

[lepa]

I don't think documentation (or lack of) is the issue when it comes to the learning curve. I think some potential users are overwhelmed by the amount of options MC has any how many steps it takes to accomplish something which seems to them should be "simple to accomplish", like enable DSD playback via bitstreaming or setting up media network/DLNA or even setting up auto-import.

What I honestly think would help more is taking tasks in MC that takes several steps to accomplish, and simplify them as a single button or toggle.

Even better would be a "Getting Started" wizard that pops up when you first install and start MC, going through multiple steps where the most commonly used options can be easily set for new users, so they at least they have a starting point. Of course, there should be a Skip or Maybe Later button or something like that.

......

Pretty much agree with Awesome Donkey. I have used MC for over decade so I have at least general feeling where I will find everything and what is possible and what to search if I don't know or remember something. I love the fact that MC is so flexible and I can custom many things at least data source wise (Even-though UI is kind of hard coded for Theater View for example) but I can understand that the learning curve would be massive if I would be be user and possible not so tech minded.

So simple wizards that would take care set of options to accomplish certain bigger tasks would certainly help new comers. I wouldn't probably use those but I can see benefits for the user base.

On big picture I'd say networking and streaming are THE areas. By that I mean seamless integration between UIs of phones, cars, televisions/chromecasts like devices etc. For example I'm listening something when driving my car and when I come home it should be fluent to be able continue with that using my home equipment and vice versa. Also some would like some kind of social networking concerning your data. You have touched this little with cloudplay. Something simple what comes to my mind would be ability to share the info about the movie you just watched on some social media platforms or whatsapp and such. (Is this already possible). I'm not so interested on that but I know people who would love something like this

[syndromeofadown]

So tell us where we blew it and what might make JRiver better.

There are too many separate products that you charge for. I have licences for Media Center, JRiver Android, Engen, JRemote, OneRemote, and IdPi's. I'm fine with the the different licences and understand you are a business, but I feel it's complicated for average person.

JRiver for android should be free until it surpasses all the free alternatives in the play store.

Please tell us what we need to do to make JRiver a more perfect media world.

1 - Sell one license to activate everything.
The main reason being simplicity. This would especially simplify Ids since the software could be downloaded instead of mailing SD cards.

2 - Continue to develop MC for Linux and Android to match the Windows version's functionality for audio, video, and images.
I would like to see the same features/functionality regardless of which device I am using whether it's a Windows PC, Windows tablet, Raspberry Pi, Linux PC, or Shield TV. If MC users had a plethora a affordable devices choices with full functionality they could forget about Apple TV, Roku, Chromecast, Amazon Fire, Xbox, Playstation, and Smart TVs. Also, merge Engen with MC and continue to develop it in a direction dictated by the people using it.

3 - Focus on privacy
People have woken up to the bull@#$% of Big Tech and their inordinate data mining, privacy invasions, and censorship. There is currently an exodus from social media platforms and youtube and an increase in privacy measures being taken in everyday life. ie. ad blockers, private browsers, VPNs, encrypted messaging and emails, boycott of smart devices, lasers to block facial recognition, tape over laptop webcams, etc. While Big Tech digs its own grave JRiver can focus on privacy and security. Firstly, just don't sell customers data. Secondly, provide privacy, security, and anonymity when using JRiver software and services. This is where Engen has an edge. Users can control their lights without every word they say being recorded.

4 - Independent media. Independent news and entertainment sources are growing but have an impossible time finding an audience. JRiver can expand it's support for podcasts and add support for RSS news feeds. Instead of youtube integration, try for something like BitChute.

5 - Touchscreen.

TV has drifted toward movie services like Netflix and Amazon

Here is a more complete list:

Code: [Select]

ABC, Acorn TV, Amazon Video, Ameba TV, Apple Music, Apple TV+, AT&T TV, BritBox, CBS All Access, CenturyLink Stream, CNN, CONtv, Criterion Channel, Crunchyroll, CW Seed,
DC Universe, Disney+, Dove Channel, Dropout, Epix, ESPN+, Facebook Watch, FilmOn, Fox Nation, Fox on Demand, FuboTV, Funimation, Global Wrestling Network, Hallmark Movies Now,
HBO Go, HBO Max, HBO Now, HIDIVE, Honor Club, Hulu, IMDb Freedive, KlowdTV, NBC Direct, Netflix, PlayStation Vue, Pluto TV, Popcornflix, PBS, The Roku Channel, Showtime,
Shudder, Sling TV, Sony Crackle, Spectrum TV Stream, Sportskool Sportskool, TheBlaze TV (formerly GBTV), Tubi, Viki, VRV, Vudu, WWE Network, Xfinity Streampix, Yahoo! View,
YipTV, YouTube Premium, YouTube TV.What is JRiver suppose to do with all of these. How is anyone suppose to pay for these. The people that have time to watch all this "quality programming" likely can't afford it because they aren't working. Most probably aren't even available in most regions outside of US.

Then there's music streaming:

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8tracks, AccuRadio, Amazon Prime Music & Amazon Music Unlimited, Anghami, Apple Music, Bandcamp, Deezer, Earbits, Google Play Music, hoopla, iHeartRadio, Jango, JOOX,
Line Music, MOOV, Music Choice, MyTuner Radio, Napster, NetEase Cloud Music, Pandora, Patari.pk, Qobuz, QQ Music, Radical.fm, ROXI, Saavn, SiriusXM, Slacker, SoundCloud,
Spotify, Stingray Music, Tidal, TuneIn, YouTube Music.That's a lot. Likely most aren't available outside of the US.

The biggest trend I see lately is that people do not pay for media and they have zero empathy for media corporations. TV has some amazing shows but in general is garbage and media manipulation is obvious.  Netflix is not worth 10 dollars a month. Game of thrones is over so there's no reason for HBO (not that there ever was, GoT was the most pirated show ever). Spotify is fine with the free version. All services are getting worse by the day as their libraries get smaller while their competition grows exponentially. The growth should stop soon as streaming services should start dropping like flies. They will cry like babies and blame piracy when in reality it's their garbage product that is to blame. Their last attempt at profit before dying will be suing ISP's, DNS's, Piracy box sellers, and their own customers. They are not entitled to money and it's fine that they go away. They can take reality TV with them. Hard drives are the cheapest they have ever been and you can play 4k video with integrated graphics. I see HTPC making a huge comeback as people get even more tired of monthly payments. Where they will get their media is a discussion for another forum, but it won't be from a subscription and it won't have DRM.

[Absinthe]

My $.02 worth

TV has drifted toward movie services like Netflix and Amazon.  Rights issues prevent us from doing much more than we currently do.  Anybody remember when we had nice support for Netflix in MC?  Netflix pulled their API, probably to please the movie studios.

I do remember this and it was a sad day when Netflix caved.  I understand why they did it from a business standpoint, but its high time the "studios" remember that there not in the drivers seat anymore.  The customer is going to determine what format, software and mechanism they will tolerate in viewing media.  It would also be nice if they could put their corporate greed aside and organize a common platform to disseminate their media.  How about some tools to manipulate external API's or apps using keystroke emulators (like flirc or Girder) that would interface seemlessly within MC?

Intra-home device support is important.  Record or download to a server, view or listen on another device, in another location.

Of a big interest to me.  Why do I have to have (at each TV) a cable box, Media Player and God knows what else to view all the media options available to me.  I've always felt that a central media server setup should capture, categorize and store all media (movies, TV, Music, Podcasts, Audio Books...) and make it available to each client throughout my home.

User interface issues always come up in these discussions.  We always appreciate specific suggestions.

I feel you have the elemental building blocks for a fantastic UI already.  The problem is not many people are going to delve into the expression language to customize the UI to produce something "Wow!"  Adding some enhanced flexibility into the theater view skins and some higher powered tools to create them would be beneficial (ability to subdivide horizontal areas, make use of overlays to allow changes to specific regions of the background/foreground).  On the extreme end, perhaps adding some advanced functions into expression language to enable more sophisticated placement of text, or graphics (programmatically allow text centering given a target area, image width or region, global variables?  In the end, perhaps make available some of the more popular UI features as "canned" options so the casual user can set up a fairly nice theater screen in say 30 min - hour?

Please tell us what we need to do to make JRiver a more perfect media world.

Got to be careful with this one.  Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.  I've read some pretty OCD request on this board and at some point, the software is going to overwealm the ability of the hardware to keep up and allow the software to function adequately as a server/client.  Not everyone has the luxury of purchasing an Core I9, or Ryzen for their Media server/Client.  From my perspective, just more tools/plugins/do dads that get me closer to an all-in-one media experience no matter what avenue that media comes from.

[dtc]

dtc,
Lots of useful and interesting thoughts.  Thank you.  Just a couple of comments.

I'm not convinced yet that voice control is so important in a home.  I know there are a lot of people who think it is, but that was also true of 3D.  After the novelty wears off, will most people use it day to day?  Are they just showing off their new technology or will it stick?  I don't know.

Houseband is well regarded and does the job.  If you're sold on voice control, I think you'd want to use it.  If not, why not?

I use voice control regular for using Amazon and Sonus. It is not as important when I use JRiver, where I mainly listen to full albums.

I agree that many traditional JRiver users will not be strong adapters of voice control. But the rest of the people in the house are often turned away from JRiver because of the UI. Voice is just easier. But JRiver Voice would need to respond to things like JRiver play Katy Perry or JRiver play soft jazz or JRiver play female folk, without a major tagging effort by the JRiver expert.

That said, I only use voice to control my microwave as a gimmick, but that is not why I bought that model.  But we use the Xfinity voice remote all the time.  Xfinity voice has, I believe, been a major success for them.

Cloudplay doesn't have the "depth and breadth" of a major service, it's true.  But it has a ton of music.  And it is a way for you to store your own music in the cloud, plus discover other music.  If you don't use it, why not? 

I have two ways I typically listen to music - full albums or a themed radio station approach.  As far as I know, Cloudplay does not play full albums, even of your own music but I could be wrong on that. If I can put my music in Cloudplay and access is like I do on disk, I would definitely be interested. But I am not interested in just playlists.  I do use Tidal to listen to full albums and will increasingly use Amazon for that.

I use the themed radio station/search approach to listen and look for new artists. My main interest in looking for new artists who are independent and/or relatively unknown singer/songwriters doing folk and jazz. My impression, although I could be wrong, is that Cloudplay does not have a lot of that type of music. I use Tidal and now Amazon for that type of listening and exploring.  And once I find an artist I like, I can play full albums. 

It is just how I listen.  My impression is that Cloudplay is not a fit. I would be interested in having my full library in the cloud with full access like I have now to the disk versions. But I don't see that as part of Cloudplay currently.

Thanks for listening.

[BigCat]

Thanks (as always) for asking, Jim!

1) WHOLE HOME AUDIO - We need an easy to implement whole home audio solution. I want to send music throughout the house, wired and wirelessly, IN SYNC and VOLUME LEVELED to phones (both Android and iPhones), TV's, receivers, and other devices. Heck, I wish I could have a "connected" boombox to carry everywhere. And all this without telling the "big companies" what I am doing every minute!

2) PRIVACY - You probably can't really compete with the big companies on scale, but you can kick their butts with HONOR. That means guaranteed privacy. No data mining, no spying, full transparency, etc. When you are deciding what companies to work with you should first rule out ones that don't live up to that standard. Or you should at least be transparent and explain about privacy trade-offs, and let users decide what to enable/disable. Make sure JRiver works with systems that respect individual privacy. Please don't get swallowed up by the big companies! (One tiny example: let me also buy JRiver for Android direct from you with my existing JRiver account.)

Then get the word out that JRiver is a leader, not just in quality and configuration, but privacy, too. Or at least it can be configured for the privacy crowd. This could bring in a new constituency. I believe that the many people that disable tracking, advertising, cookies, phoning home, social media, etc. also make themselves more invisible, and therefore their numbers are overlooked/underestimated.

3) Keep doing what you already do. Listening to the users; making the absolute best software there is. Straight up.

[blgentry]

I've been using JRiver for several years.  I think I understand it pretty well.  I thought it would be my one media player for the whole house.  Unfortunately two big things have kept MC from really being used "in the house".  It pretty much only lives on my desktop computer.

1.  Synchronized audio:  I've opened numerous threads on this.  MC can not sync audio at all between devices.  MC to DLNA does not work.  MC to MC does not work.  I have spent 10 to 20 hours testing various combinations of this.  It does not work.  I was sure I was wrong.  But no one has ever responded to my threads to say that sync actually works.  If this worked, I would be using MC for audio in multiple places in my house.  As it is, I use a different product, which does perfect sync out of the box with no settings or configuration.  I realize that this might sound rather negative.  It's simply a factual report of my experience.  If someone reading this is doing real synced audio with MC (and no third party products), PLEASE tell me how.

2.  Video playback, to a large TV, is really designed for the Windows version of MC.  It works on Mac.  But it's no where near the level of sophistication that MC for Windows has.  Plus it turns out that using a Mac as an HTPC just isn't that great.  Darn it.     I am not willing to use a Windows box as a set top box, home theater media center, or whatever you want to call it.  A PC running Windows just doesn't work for me in a living room.  I don't want a keyboard or a mouse.  I don't ever want to update Windows, back it up, mess with the registry, etc.  I want a set top box that just works.  This is a large part of the reason that I do not want a Mac as an HTPC either.  It also requires too much time and effort.  So I now own two different set top boxes.  Both work pretty darned well.  Both were under $200 each.  One of them plays my entire video collection, running a popular media player.  I wish it ran MC!  But it won't.  So MC gets no use in my living room because the cost of entry (setup, maintenance, input device requirements) is just too high.

If it's not obvious to Jim and others reading, I'm still a big MC fan.  I've spent a whole lot of time in this forum helping because I think this is a cool product!  I would really like to use MC in these functions around my house.

Of the two, I think developing audio sync would be easier than somehow packaging MC for Video onto an affordable low maintenance platform.  Just guessing.

Brian.

[stewart_pk]

This is your turn to tell us where we've gone wrong, missed the boat, spent months in the weeds.   

We rely on you to keep an eye on the market and trends.  So tell us where we blew it and what might make JRiver better.

Please tell us what we need to do to make JRiver a more perfect media world.

Let me say firstly that JRiver MC is still my go to piece of software for straight up local file playback.
It has a fantastic audio engine as a virtual digital pre-amp/processor and the integration with MadVR are it's strengths.
Having said that because of it's complexity I would never recommend it to anyone except someone who is very computer savvy and a serious Audio/HT enthusiast.
So if you're trying to gain the average Joe market (which I doubt you are) you are going about it completely the wrong way.

In my opinion resource has been wasted with TV playback/recording, Panel and Cloudplay.

The WDM Driver is one of the main reasons I have stuck with JRiver MC as streaming services like Spotify and Netflix are simply must have's.
But I continuously have to fumble around with it and my patience tested.
I would really love JRiver MC's Internal Volume overlaid over whatever is on the screen.
Complete and awesome integration of streaming services is what everyone would like but I understand that it's mostly out of your hands.

[Absinthe]

I use voice control regular for using Amazon and Sonus. It is not as important when I use JRiver, where I mainly listen to full albums.

I agree that many traditional JRiver users will not be strong adapters of voice control. But the rest of the people in the house are often turned away from JRiver because of the UI. Voice is just easier. But JRiver Voice would need to respond to things like JRiver play Katy Perry or JRiver play soft jazz or JRiver play female folk, without a major tagging effort by the JRiver expert.

That said, I only use voice to control my microwave as a gimmick, but that is not why I bought that model.  But we use the Xfinity voice remote all the time.  Xfinity voice has, I believe, been a major success for them.
I have two ways I typically listen to music - full albums or a themed radio station approach.  As far as I know, Cloudplay does not play full albums, even of your own music but I could be wrong on that. If I can put my music in Cloudplay and access is like I do on disk, I would definitely be interested. But I am not interested in just playlists.  I do use Tidal to listen to full albums and will increasingly use Amazon for that.

If your going to do voice control, it has to be spot on and an actual help and not just a gimmick.  I see Alexa as just a gimmick.  I can type faster than I can talk and its very rare where Id ever be using a computer without a keyboard.  However, I do agree that the Xfinity remote does seem to be pretty well dialed in as far as accuracy and making the correct action for the users verbal command.  However, there is one hurdle that you need to cross with audible commands to a music system.  The Microphone has to be more sensitive to the users voice than the audio coming from the speakers.  I listen to music most often at reference levels and there's not a mic in the world that's going to hear me over the audio from the speakers unless that mic's mounted to my head.

[Spike1000]

That's really helpful.  Thanks.  It also points out one of the major obstacles we have.  There are multiple platforms of devices now: Apple, Google, Amazon, Sonos, etc.  Each is different and not always open to developers.  They're almost equivalent to an OS.  I'd love to support them all, but that's not going to happen.  Choosing one is probably better than doing nothing.  Maybe I'll start a poll.

Be careful with polls. They results will be biased; you're asking forum members their opinions, they will already have an opinion as they are forum members and therefore a very techie consumer.  You'd be better speaking to the 98 people Wer demonstrated MC to and didn't "buy into it" their opinion.

" I've demo'd MC to over nearly 100 people at Audio society meetings.  I think two people have bought it.  Everyone else complained the learning curve was "impossible" and that there was basically no documentation. "

Spike

[Spike1000]

I've mentioned this before:

Split the releases into two channels.
1) A (say) quarterly *stable* release that's fully tested, quality controlled, and doesn't break anything when installed.
2) A rapid release every week or so for those who are interested. This isn't fully tested and may break things.

At the moment we get channel '2' with 'stable' versions picked from the rapid releases but there's no full testing or stability testing.

If you're looking to move into a different (less technical) market, fewer, more stable releases will be required.

Spike

[dtc]

If your going to do voice control, it has to be spot on and an actual help and not just a gimmick.  I see Alexa as just a gimmick.  I can type faster than I can talk and its very rare where Id ever be using a computer without a keyboard.  However, I do agree that the Xfinity remote does seem to be pretty well dialed in as far as accuracy and making the correct action for the users verbal command.  However, there is one hurdle that you need to cross with audible commands to a music system.  The Microphone has to be more sensitive to the users voice than the audio coming from the speakers.  I listen to music most often at reference levels and there's not a mic in the world that's going to hear me over the audio from the speakers unless that mic's mounted to my head.

Many people use Alexa regularly as a way to interact with their music. It is often much easier to give a voice command to Alexa than to walk into the other room, sit down and type.   If I want to sit down for a real listening session, then typing is fine, although best done on a phone or tablet. In our Florida home we have Sonus speakers throughout the house and outdoors, and simply talking to Alexa  it a very easy to control what we are listening to. You can even do it while in the pool.  Its a different way to interact with your music and it is pretty common these days.  But, as I said above, many traditional JRiver users  probably will not use voice control. But a lot of currently non-JRiver users are using it today.

[wig]

For me it's very simple:

Mobile

I want to be able to do these things from the JRiver mobile app:

1. Stream music from my collection, logging plays on my library. Panel doesn't play nice with bluetooth and my car.
2. Download files to my device and for local playback, a la Amazon Music. It's 2019 and I'm done plugging my phone into my pc.
3. Bonus request - continue to refine Play Doctor. For example, I'd love to be able create and save Play Doctor radio stations based on multiple selections (artists, albums, etc).

Thanks for the forum, Jim.

[JimH]

I've mentioned this before:

Split the releases into two channels.
1) A (say) quarterly *stable* release that's fully tested, quality controlled, and doesn't break anything when installed.
2) A rapid release every week or so for those who are interested. This isn't fully tested and may break things.

At the moment we get channel '2' with 'stable' versions picked from the rapid releases but there's no full testing or stability testing.

If you're looking to move into a different (less technical) market, fewer, more stable releases will be required.

Spike

Here's how updates work:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Updates

If you subscribe to the stable channel, the builds are seldom a problem. 

I moved your other post to the Documentation thread.

[rec head]

Jim I have only read your initial post then skipped down to respond. I'm sure this stuff has been discussed.

1) Lots of people seem to dislike the dated look of the UI. You always ask for specific advice but that obviously isn't the right way to approach this because it hasn't worked. You need to either hire a UI person or just look at the more recent UIs that people like and copy them. I am only talking about Theater View.

2) Take that slick new UI and get it on Android TV as a CLIENT. I would love to share my library with people that would have to buy a copy of MC for Android to use on their Shield.

3) and because of #2 make sharing options more granular so I have more control over what is being shared. An example would be that if I was sharing movies I might only want to share 1080p content. Or maybe if I could select what is shared to specific clients?

[tij]

i just want to mention that while looking at bigger picture ... dont forget the main strenth of MC (like some other competitors ... *cough cough* ... plex?) ... local library management and highest quality playback and great HTPC

[JimH]

Thanks (as always) for asking, Jim!

2) PRIVACY - You probably can't really compete with the big companies on scale, but you can kick their butts with HONOR. That means guaranteed privacy. No data mining, no spying, full transparency, etc. When you are deciding what companies to work with you should first rule out ones that don't live up to that standard. Or you should at least be transparent and explain about privacy trade-offs, and let users decide what to enable/disable. Make sure JRiver works with systems that respect individual privacy. Please don't get swallowed up by the big companies! (One tiny example: let me also buy JRiver for Android direct from you with my existing JRiver account.)

I quoted part of this in a new topic here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122301.msg846320.html#msg846320

Thanks to you and others who made similar comments.   Honor shouldn't be so unusual that it even needs to be mentioned.

[JimH]

Topics that came up several times each...

Privacy
That was a surprise to me, but I understand.

Documentation
Moved to a new thread for discussion.

Theater View Customization
Big topic.  It would require a re-write and I'm not sure even then it would satisfy everyone.

Phones
Lots of different pieces.  I agree it's important.

Services
Too many to support well.  A generalized method that provided the structure for others to implement might work.  Big project.

Voice Control
As I said above, I'm not confident it will remain important after the novelty wears off.  I can see the utility in some situations.

Networking
Airplay, Chromecast, Sonos.  We'd like to do a better job here.

Amazon Music HD
Important, too soon to know what it would take.

Learning Curve
Frustration for users and for JRiver.  Maybe something can be done here.

Client/Server Sync
We can do a better job.

Whole Home Solution
I agree.  We're working on it.  It has a lot of moving parts.  Hopefully, Android TV will help.

[JimH]

Split Channel Changes.

[Moe]

Theater View Customization
Big topic.  It would require a re-write and I'm not sure even then it would satisfy everyone.

I think the best solution here would be to re-write it but do so in a way that makes it easy to create skins.  Then give us first rate skinning tools that are very well documented and let the users make skins.  This would be a lot easier to satisfy everyone.  I realize the size of this task is very large.

Voice Control
As I said above, I'm not confident it will remain imporant after the novelty wears off.  I can see the utility in some situations.

I don't think the industry agrees with you there. 

Report: Voice assistants in use to triple to 8 billion by 2023
Smart speakers are the fastest growing consumer technology since the smartphone
U.S. Smart Speaker Ownership Rises 40% in 2018

I use my echo devices (I have three of them) extensively.  I too thought it was a gimmicky thing when it first came out. Then I was given one as a gift and now I can't imagine life without it. 

I'd love to be able to come home and as I am taking off my jacket and emptying my pockets say "Alexa, ask JRiver to put on some music" and have music start playing.  Or be up and about and hear the phone ring and be able to say "Alexa pause" and have the music pause without fumbling around for a remote or running over to the computer.  I actually have an echo in my bathroom (I like listening to music in the shower ) and if a song I don't feel like hearing comes on I can say "Alexa skip" and go to the next song.  Or sitting down on my couch and if I know what movie I want to watch I could just say "Alex as JRiver to play the movie Rocketman" and it starts playing.  No need to search through my library, no need to touch my remote or keyboard, etc. 

What you think is a gimmick I think is the future.  Also, I can already do most (if not all) of the above with Plex (I'm only using Plex for audio on my Echo devices).

[JimH]

I didn't say it's a gimmick.  I know it has a serious following and I think it's very nice for some things.  I'm just not sure it will be as attractive long term.

Some of the things you use as examples can be very easily done without voice control.  Houseband can also do some of it.

I personally find it interesting, not compelling.

We will see.

[tij]

Are some of these have chance to make it to MC26?

[fitbrit]

I don't think documentation (or lack of) is the issue when it comes to the learning curve. I think some potential users are overwhelmed by the amount of options MC has any how many steps it takes to accomplish something which seems to them should be "simple to accomplish", like enable DSD playback via bitstreaming or setting up media network/DLNA or even setting up auto-import.

What I honestly think would help more is taking tasks in MC that takes several steps to accomplish, and simplify them as a single button or toggle.

Even better would be a "Getting Started" wizard that pops up when you first install and start MC, going through multiple steps where the most commonly used options can be easily set for new users, so they at least they have a starting point. Of course, there should be a Skip or Maybe Later button or something like that.

First step in a Getting Started wizard could be called "Audio Device" which has a drop down menu of all audio devices on the system, which will allow the user to pick the audio output. From there once you select an audio device to output with, and below that another drop down menu could be enabled, allowing users to easily choose with audio driver they want to use with their audio device to output with (with whatever is available); DirectSound, WASAPI, WASAPI Exclusive, ASIO, Kernel Streaming, etc. And below that could be several commonly used audio options, like a "Enable DSD" checkbox that enables DSD bitstreaming (and any other settings needed with it) with the selected audio device used for output. You can also add the "Enable Audio Only Mode" checkbox here too (give a quick explanation of what the box does below it) which skips video and image related steps if it's enabled.

Second step in a Getting Started wizard logically would be setting up auto-import (with an option to skip that step, if the user desires). Give simple options, like a choose directory button and path, and maybe add a + button to add additional paths. Beside each selected path in the list there could be an edit button (I'd call it Settings or Customize), which brings up the Folder Options dialog, allowing users to choose what type(s) of files they want to import. And finally, below the selected directory/directories, there could be a couple extra check boxes, including a check box for "Build thumbnails" and "Analyze audio for audio files" which sets those up.

Third step in a Getting Started wizard could be Media Network. Trying to make this as simple as possible without overwhelming the user with lots of options would probably be a good idea. Give options to enable Media Network, setup Media Network (with simple options given), test Media Network, etc. The idea here would be helping the user enable and use Media Network without needing to read any of the documentation.

Fourth step in a Getting Started wizard would be video related. Enabling Red October or Red October HQ (and give quick descriptions of each setting) along with other commonly used video options.

Fifth step in a Getting Started wizard could be images related. Or streaming related, like give options for enabling CloudPlay and Radio JRiver (and Radio Paradise, etc.) and setting those up.

Final step could be links to the wiki (including article links for getting started. audio setup, etc.) and forums. Or something like that.

At least, with these ideas it'd take some of the mystique out of a brand new user trying MC for the first time and they could easily (and most importantly painlessly) get started using MC pretty quickly. You could even add a Getting Started menu item to one of the menus (File?) so a user can go through the wizard once again if desired. I honestly think having this could help potential users.

Roon's setup wizard to get a user started is superb. Pretty much along the lines of steps 1 and 2 for audio. A pity then that it keeps forgetting users' audio devices over time, but the initial experience is very good indeed.

[JimH]

Are some of these have chance to make it to MC26?

A lot of it made it into MC25.

Phones
JRiver for Android
JRemote fixes
JRemote for Android work (not yet public)

Networked Devices
JRiver Id now supports audio, video, photos, including Theater View.
JRiver Blackbox
Android TV (not yet public)

Streaming Media
Radio JRiver
Cloudplay
Panel streaming

User Interface
Theater View on Mac and Linux

Other
iTunes Import
Android TV (not yet public)

[tzr916]

Big picture, for more average joe customers... You must create simplified delivery to the whole home. They don't want to setup/pay for multiple client PC's or cable boxes in every room, and don't want to use a tablet/phone to "play to" a room, especially where movies/tv is concerned.

The average person expects a setup WIZARD for the initial setup of the Server. After that, an easy way to browse/consume all of the media using a 4k 10ft UI app on their Tv's is crucial. That should be a fully realized Theater View app built into the Tv, or Roku device, or nVidia Shield, or FireTv, etc., where there's a simple login using that device's remote control. Then it just plays everything with no fiddling around, again controlled with that device's remote control:

-lossless music, cover art
-Live/recorded Tv with commercial skip, guide, recording scheduling, cover art
-HDR10/DoblyVision movies with Atmos/DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD

I understand supporting all of that hardware isn't realistic, so pick one, hopefully one that has DolbyVision and Atmos. If someone needs MadVR/ROHQ, then the Server or client PC is still available.

[mwillems]

I quoted part of this in a new topic here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122301.msg846320.html#msg846320

Thanks to you and others who made similar comments.   Honor shouldn't be so unusual that it even needs to be mentioned.

Privacy and honest dealing is a major part of why I'm all in on JRiver.  There are a lot of competing solutions, but I know and trust Jim, Matt, Hendrik, and Bob (and the rest of the team).

JRiver isn't perfect (nothing is), but I like very much that JRiver makes its money from user payments and not from advertising or data harvesting.  I'm at a point in my software journey that I don't use much closed-source software because I don't trust most software companies to be honest with me, or to make good use of the information they extract behind the scenes.  Not having to worry about what JRiver is doing under the hood is more than worth the price of admission for me. 

Whatever else may come, I hope JRiver keeps its business model and user-respecting attitude!

(In the spirit of the thread, I'm always happy to see more work on client/server issues and on cross-platform feature parity, of course  )

[JimH]

mwillems,
Thank you.  It's a gift you've given us.

I used part of what you said in a poll here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122312.0.html

I had never given much thought to the idea of trust or that trust and privacy were a JRiver asset.

Thank you.

[rolf_eigenheer]

Although MC is usually discussed as an audio or video center, it is perhaps the best photo management program ever.
While I do not really care if the world knows what music I have in my collection, I still want to keep my own photos private.
Also, the needs of the music listeners seem to be very well covered today. Even music files of a medium-sized collection can now be stored on a mobile phone and can easily be searched. Most of these users could use MC, but it works just as well without MC.

In the case of photos, however, a large number of rather private data is collected very quickly. Sorting, categorizing and keeping track of often multiple stored images is one of MC's great strengths. For this I do not see a really satisfying alternative, neither online nor offline.
These capabilities of MediaCenter could be advertised stronger. With every camera I get simple viewers and browsers. But try to maintain a collection of images from different cameras with them ... :-( 
Naming and filing photos according to their tags in MC is way ahead compared to these tools. I don't know any other program which allows me to define individual views, filtering places, persons, media type, camera or even file name or path information. Together with the random playback, no presentation is the same as one before.

In this sense, making MC more popular to photo enthusiasts, the playback could be a little more interesting.
- Mix image slideshows with short film snippets from action cams
- Zoom in on faces or the focus points used when recording
- Display the recording locations (GPS) on the map to be displayed
- Combination with audio track
- ...

[badger]

Although MC is usually discussed as an audio or video center, it is perhaps the best photo management program ever.
While I do not really care if the world knows what music I have in my collection, I still want to keep my own photos private.

This.  With a phone app with "pinch and zoom".  I've tried all JRiver handheld apps and none are very good with photos (IMO).  For the desktop, MC is great for photo management, but when I want to search my photos remotely with my phone, I use Synology DSPhoto... as all my media (music, video and photos) are on my DS.  I think expanding photo management is definitely "big picture".  Maybe too big as you're probably thinking Google or Apple has that covered.  But not for those who want their photos kept private.

[thecrow]

I got into JRiver through its videophile features. Back in those days I used Microsoft MCE but was attracted by JRiver's use of MadVR for superior picture quality and kernel streaming for better audio quality.
Since then I have virtually given up using a HTPC and now use JRiver as a database and server to stream over DLNA to my 4k Blu-ray player (itself hardly ever used to play discs anymore). This was precipitated by my increased viewing of 4k HDR, which I found troublesome from my HTPC.
The only times I fire up my HTPC now is when choosing with others what to watch as the 10ft interface is far superior to a tablet or mobile in these situations.
I also listen to music around the house by streaming to various devices using DLNA controlled from my phone or occasionally JRiver as a client on my laptop.
This is mostly meeting my current needs except Cloudplay does not work over DLNA, Radio Paradise will but only from my laptop not from a client of my server.
So for my personal use I would like to see DLNA streaming for Cloudplay and RP from a JRiver client and maybe an improved Theatre View experience may tempt me back to my HTPC.