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[Hendrik]

If iGPU or APU would be enough, this would be very high value regrading green value and money

It always depends what you expect it to do. Get you an image? Sure, integrated graphics will probably be fine. Fancy features? Guess we'll see how much you can push that.
We are definitely aiming to also offer a way to run on lower hardware as well as we can make it, but of course not everything will be available then.

There is a lot of potential to tune for performance vs. quality/features, hopefully we can properly guide the setup for users to pick the right one.

[pepar]

Are you doing internal comparative testing vs. MadVR? Will you provide guidance for users as to what hardware profiles/scenarios will benefit from JRVR over MadVR and vice versa?

[duncan4791]

Has this been tested with the Messa Vulkan driver on a Raspberry Pi 4? I just updated JRiver on a Pi4 Raspberry OS 64bit and played a normal DVD .vob file fine, .mkv also works. Wondering if it is worth the trouble to install Mesa Vulkan.

[Hendrik]

Vulkan on RPi4 is not currently functional as far as I could tell, too many missing features still. We require at least Vulkan 1.1 support. But it'll run on OpenGL on the RPi4.

[Awesome Donkey]

Vulkan on RPi4 is not currently functional as far as I could tell, too many missing features still. We require at least Vulkan 1.1 support. But it'll run on OpenGL on the RPi4.

I can confirm Vulkan works in Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye, as least in the arm64 variant. I'm currently running the beta arm64/64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye and Vulkan is quite functional using demos like vkcube and verifying with vulkaninfo.

I might try to load up RetroArch and see if any of the cores that supports Vulkan works fine on the Pi.

[Hendrik]

I can confirm Vulkan works in Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye, as least in the arm64 variant. I'm currently running the beta arm64/64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye and Vulkan is quite functional using demos like vkcube and verifying with vulkaninfo.

There is a difference between vkcube working and enough features being exposed for Vulkan 1.1 compatibility. The latest update on the RPi4 Vulkan driver I read from August was that they are still working on 1.1 features, so it definitely won't be in a released Mesa driver yet.

You can try to run MC28 for Linux with video on it, and it'll try to use Vulkan, but the log will tell you if it worked or what might be missing. All features should be probed dynamically, so it'll work when it can. But the good news is that the driver is improving and hopefully it will work once they release a new version. In the meantime, OpenGL works just fine as well.

In any case, we can further discuss this on the Linux board.

[murray]

Ive only just found out today about the new JRVR which I think is very exciting news!
Ive been using Red October madvr for years and have the 1080ti card.
Ive pretty much mastered madvr and found its very stable on NGUs highest settings upscaling everything to 4K.
I use passthrough for HDR letting my JVC NX9 projector do the tone mapping.
I dont use madvr for my Isco anamorphic stretch I let the proj do it.

1. One thing I do like with madvr is the sharpening section which Ive made up a number of buttons on the ipad for, e.g. Sharpness 1, 2, 3, 4 etc, is it likey JRVR may have a setting like this in the future?

2. If I upgrade my JR version to the new MC28 will it save all my old settings in JR and will I still be able to use madvr Red October for comparing the two?

[ppataki]

This is really cool news!

One question: will it support HDR10+ and/or Dolby Vision passthrough in Windows?

Thank you

[flac.rules]

Will be very interesting to see, vastly more easy to say, than to implement of course, but I would rather have a 99% quality thing that is easily setup to deliver that quality, with not too much hassle with HDR, Upscaling, reclocking and fine tuning all that, than the absolute best in quality.

[JimH]

A preview of JRVR is in MC28.0.73, which is on the beta board now, and should be on this board in the coming week. 

I moved the test reporting thread here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130905.0.html

It's good news so far.

[SamuriHL]

Definitely looking nice so far!

[JimH]

A preview is available now:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130913.msg907597.html#msg907597  (build 73).

For now it's Red October JRVR.  The name may change.  No new features, but video quality is improved compared to (at least) EVR.

[whoareyou]

There is a difference between vkcube working and enough features being exposed for Vulkan 1.1 compatibility. The latest update on the RPi4 Vulkan driver I read from August was that they are still working on 1.1 features, so it definitely won't be in a released Mesa driver yet.

You can try to run MC28 for Linux with video on it, and it'll try to use Vulkan, but the log will tell you if it worked or what might be missing. All features should be probed dynamically, so it'll work when it can. But the good news is that the driver is improving and hopefully it will work once they release a new version. In the meantime, OpenGL works just fine as well.

In any case, we can further discuss this on the Linux board.

I enabled JRVR renderer,  and disabled buffering for low powered devices.  OpenGL enabled on the PI. RPI4 will not play 1080i video correctly.  The video is being retrieved over network from Windows 10 box using CIFS mount.  Network speeds are fine.  Audio plays fine with this setup including downmixing 6 channel dsf to 2 channel 96/24.

Video starts but, very slowly, displaying series of still frames from the video.  The RPI4 is a 4gb and SSD based.   

It sounds as if expectation is this should now work on RPI4?

So, are there other relevant RPI4 / JRiver settings or do I just need to wait for future release, or just not a good use case for the PI4?

[BY96]

Before I do the update, I just want to confirm that MadVR will still be an option, along with JRVR. Right? Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

Yes.  Madvr is still available.

[BY96]

Yes.  Madvr is still available.

Thank you! I downloaded it. Are there no settings to tweak JRVR yet?

[SamuriHL]

Not that I'm aware.  "It just works(tm)".

[fitbrit]

A few observations with the Windows version:

7700K and 1080Ti (on an HDR TV that doesn't display HDR right)

Picture quality in Foundation TV series (HDR source) is excellent - as good as MadVR, and maybe better. This is compared to MadVR tone mapping. However, it stutters occasionally where MadVR drops zero frames.

Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G using integrated APU video on an HDR capable screen:
Tested with Allegiant UHD HDR rip:
Looks over saturated and is juddery in places in JRVR.
Small improvements in PQ with hardware acceleration turned off, but still over saturated), but less-so than with acceleration on.
MadVR, is smoother and looks better with both HDR passthrough and tone-mapping.

With an Adele (1080p SDR, 25fps converted to 29fps, I believe) concert bluray JRVR was better out of the box. I had automatic display refresh rate set to show 29 fps material at 29 Hz. In MadVR it is stuttery, unless this setting is changed to 59 Hz. JRVR did a good job even at 29Hz compared to MadVR.

It's still very exciting to have thins feature, even as a preview. I can't wait to see it in its finished form with HDR pass-through and improved tone-mapping, some configurables and an OSD for monitoring/debugging.

[thorsten]

Some insights with my low-end system
Ryzen 5 2500U with integrated Vega 8 APU on Laptop

The mauretanian 4K HDR rip on Full-HD integrated screen
MadVR: 30% CPU 93% GPU (60Hz, moderate parameter: scaling, HDR tone mapping)
JRVR: 8% CPU 73% GPU, 95% GPU RAM usage, no idea of the frequency

colors look the same, madVR perhaps a little bit sharper. But, very promising!!! Looking forward to test it on my JVC- X7900 projector!

Good work and thank you!

BR,

Thorsten

[Inquisition]

Report from my system, AMD Athlon 4x4,2GHz and GTX1070

4K with HDR is OK, no Problems, some 1080p videos run without problems, some with heavy judder (for example  Firefox (Clint Eastwood)) is horrible to watch.

[JimH]

Report from my system, AMD Athlon 4x4,2GHz and GTX1070

4K with HDR is OK, no Problems, some 1080p videos run without problems, some with heavy judder (for example  Firefox (Clint Eastwood)) is horrible to watch.

Please include the build of MC that you're using.

[iankelsall25]

i am running on windows 10 64bit, i have tried the 'JRVR' preview option. However, the menu controls on the blu ray discs i have tried do not work. normally for example, they may start with a language option, and that button is highlighted with a tab or colour change. This is not visible so there is no way to access a specific menu function.

[jmone]

i am running on windows 10 64bit, i have tried the 'JRVR' preview option. However, the menu controls on the blu ray discs i have tried do not work. normally for example, they may start with a language option, and that button is highlighted with a tab or colour change. This is not visible so there is no way to access a specific menu function.

It's on the list of features for Hendrik to add.

[Inquisition]

Please include the build of MC that you're using.

The Actual 64bit Version

[afss_br]

I just purchased version 28 for this feature alone ! Thanks for enabling it !

While the gamma conversion from HDR to SDR seems to work really well, I am currently running on a colorspace limitation, for which I am not sure how to overcome. Please, appreciate your comments.

On the same HTPC that I use MPC-BE with Madvr and get (HDR converted to) SDR BT2020 output, I am currently only getting SDR REC 709 using JRiver with the video renderer selected. Is there a place I need to configure, in order to make BT 2020 as the selected output colorspace ?

[Hendrik]

JRVR currently always targets SDR BT.709, there are no options yet to change that. Those will be added later.

[afss_br]

JRVR currently always targets SDR BT.709, there are no options yet to change that. Those will be added later.

Thanks. I believe this is a critical feature for projector owners like myself.

[Smack]

Hello all.
I have a few questions.

First of all I use a projector which is capable of Rec2020 but couldn’t output HDR.

So I need the the option of SDR/rec2020 HDR tonemapping.

I also need to have a option to select the display nits (since I’m using a projector it is very low (60 nits)).

Other than that is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray) or do I need to rip them on my NAS?

I really would like to use the Linux version because I will have to build a new HTPC and don’t want to buy a new operating system.

What would you recommend as GPU?

Since I do need tonemapping  and upscale from FHD to UHD I’m afraid I need a Nvidia GeForce 30xx which is at the moment „a little“ pricey

[jmone]

I can answer some of these (but I'm a Windows user so unsure on the Linux side as the Windows version of MC is the most feature complete):
- is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray)?  Yes, but if it is a commercial disc you will need to run a real time decrypter in the background like AnyDVD.  MC will then give the option of playing the full disc (with Menus etc), or just the "Main Title"
- What would you recommend as GPU?  I've had no issue with good mid range cards like the 1660Ti , plenty of power for most anything and well priced. 

[Smack]

I can answer some of these (but I'm a Windows user so unsure on the Linux side as the Windows version of MC is the most feature complete):
- is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray)?  Yes, but if it is a commercial disc you will need to run a real time decrypter in the background like AnyDVD.  MC will then give the option of playing the full disc (with Menus etc), or just the "Main Title"
- What would you recommend as GPU?  I've had no issue with good mid range cards like the 1660Ti , plenty of power for most anything and well priced.

Thanks a lot for your quick reply. I heard a lot from MadVr regarding tonemapping and upscale from full hd to Uhd and that you need at least a Nvidia 1080ti for this. It would be awesome if I could use an 1660ti for that. Like I wrote before, I use a projector which is capable of rec2020 but not hdr.  So I Need hdr to sdr tonemapping. Otherwise, the picture is too dark.

[JrPinto]

Just downloaded the Windows Version, running through win10 on a Zotac ID68 (i5 4200 + Intel HD4400 Family Graphic Card), not 4K.

The image is beautiful running BluRay ISO, maybe better than MadVR. Unfortunatelly, there is an issue with BluRay menu, once only the background image is shown, without the navigation options.

On DVD ISO, the program stucks for abaou 10/20 seconds and do not open, skipping to the next movie file.

Subtitles do not start automatically. It must turned off and on again for the subs to show.

[JimH]

There are many things that still need to be hooked up.  The current releases are only for preview purposes, for you to get an idea of quality and performance, and for Hendrik to find out what's broken.

Our goal is to have the highest quality possible, to be as efficient as possible so that it runs on low power equipment and uses less electricity, and to keep it simple to set up and use.

[((( atom )))]

If they are only for preview purposes, will the run indefintely or do I have to aquire a license?

Asking, because I would love to check out the progress of development and once it is stable and suits my needs just go and buy it and switch over to it.

[JimH]

When you install MC, a 30 day trial begins.  At the end of that period, it expires.

[((( atom )))]

I find that a littlebit difficult for a preview. For a stable release this is fine, but I would like to use the preview to come back every now and then and check on the status of things. I would not really want to spend much money on that.

[SamuriHL]

A few things on that.  First, buying a license for JRiver will solve that problem and I can tell you assuredly it's worth the price of admission.  Even if you're going to use madvr as your "daily driver" until JRVR is more mature, I can tell you that JRiver has been my only go to media center software for years. Worth every penny IMNSHO.

Second, if you're dead set on waiting to purchase a license until JRVR meets your needs, then you may want to hold off on previewing/trialing MC until JRVR advertises all the features you're looking for.  At that point you can do a proper evaluation on whether you truly want to switch or not.

Just my thoughts as an end user.

[((( atom )))]

Well, I get the impression that development here is rather promising, so I guess, I will just buy a license to support the good effords from my end, hoping it will just turn out to be what I need.

Is there still this Linux only license available? I did not fully understand the different licensing types yet.

[SamuriHL]

You can buy a linux or mac or windows only license, or you can buy a master license that allows you to install on any of the supported OS'.  It's really a tremendous product and an excellent team.

[pepar]

FWIW, I purchased a license and a few upgrades well before I managed to roll out a full implementation, i.e. MC Library Server and Clients as sources in my various A/V systems in my house. I never had any doubt about the product or the team. I never had any doubt that this was the way I wanted to go.

Jeff

[((( atom )))]

Sine I dont use either Windows or MacOS a Linux license will do. Will this be valid for more than one machine? I like to have a test Installation apart from my main System.

[JimH]

Sine I dont use either Windows or MacOS a Linux license will do. Will this be valid for more than one machine? I like to have a test Installation apart from my main System.

Yes.  You can use it on all "your" machines, within reason.

[ppataki]

I have tried JRVR too; I have compared madVR HDR passthrough (my Philips OLED805 doing the processing) vs JRVR HDR tone mapping
Unfortunately I cannot post pictures since I cannot capture the HDR signal from my TV; I have also tried taking pictures with my phone but the results are useless

I have played the Samsung Wonderland test clip: at 1:30 there is a scene with snow-capped mountains in the background - I always use that for testing HDR
If I use madVR HDR passthrough I can see that the snow is not entirely white, there is a lot of detail
If I use JRVR HDR tone mapping the details are gone unfortunately, it all bleeds in white

Would be nice for JRVR to support HDR passthrough too (including HDR10+ and Dolby Vision) and also to have some quality settings for the tone mapping (like in madVR)
Thank you

[jmone]

Hendrik has HDR passthrough on his list of features to implement.  I too found that the current default of BT2390 blows out the highlights, but in MC 28.0.78 you can change that to Hable and the details in the highlights will be preserved. 

[Olombo]

Hi

just tried the JRVR. I must admit for „out of the box“ I really like it. Sure, there might be some more updates until competing with madvr pro users….however if you do not want to dig too much in 1000 options, it seems to be a good alternative!

Has anybody yet an idea what is a reasonable hardware minimum config? I saw cpu/gpu usage lower than on madvr. Since not everybody wants to spent on a rtx3080 like I have now.

[((( atom )))]

I used my backup 1050 Ti for tests and so far never saw GPU usage above 50%, also not when tonemapping was used. RAM went higher but nowhere near its 4GB limits.

My CPU is an Intel Pentium Gold, which is fairly favorite amongst HTPC-builders, because you get a pretty good bang for the buck, and runs Windows and MadVR just fine, so there should be enough headroom for JRiver MC which is obviously a lot easier on resources.

[park]

How will JRVR deal with frame rates? In madVR its possible to turn off motion interpolation.
Will JRiver use the "Display Settings" in the Video options to output at those custom fixed resolutions and frame rates?

[jmone]

JRVR works fine with the MC goodies including Display Rate changing, AV Sync Correction, and Video Clock!

[SamuriHL]

Is there any chance this will come to Android at some point?  Specifically I'd love to see this up on my SHIELD at some point but don't know how technically feasible that would be.

[Hendrik]

Is there any chance this will come to Android at some point?  Specifically I'd love to see this up on my SHIELD at some point but don't know how technically feasible that would be.

Chance? Maybe. But not anytime soon. Mobile-class hardware is quite limited in itself, and with Android limitations on top..

[SamuriHL]

Chance? Maybe. But not anytime soon. Mobile-class hardware is quite limited in itself, and with Android limitations on top..

Yea, I kind of assumed that'd be the case but it never hurts to ask.    Thanks!