Topic: problems playing standard DVD's (Read 27967 times)

MikeDuke · « **on:** December 23, 2013, 03:40:04 pm »

Hello. I am new to this forum. I have Baetis server running MC18. My Red October OS is in standard mode. I am using MakeMKV to rip my movies. The issue I am having is that when I play a rip back for a movie that was a standard DVD, the video does not look right. It's kind of hard to explain but the best way to describe it is that it looks choppy. This is when I play it back right through JRiver. But, as a test, I downloaded the VLC playback container. When I watch a regular DVD that I burned through that player, it looks smooth as can be. So there are settings that I don't have setup right. I was really hoping that someone here could help me out in things I could try because I have tried a lot of things and so far nothing has worked. I think it's under "tools" and "options" I have hardware accelerator checked and video clock checked. Unchecking them really doesn't make much of a difference so I am really and the end of my rope. Any other ideas would be very helpful.
Thanks

mojave · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2013, 04:07:31 pm »

Welcome to Interact! I post as Desertdome at AVS, but Mojave elsewhere.

I also rip DVD's with MakeMKV. MC18 had a problem for me with some DVD's that was fixed by an update. First, are you using 18.0.212, which is the last version released? You can check your version by clicking Help > About Media Center. If you aren't using that version, you can update from the link in this thread:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82548.0

If you are using the latest version, then I suggest you try the free 30-day demo of MC19 and see if it plays fine in MC19. MC19 will automatically copy over all your settings from MC18 so it works the same way. The only thing you might need to configure is Options > Audio > Audio Device since that setting has changed. Your MC18 will stay the same and you can still use it. I'm just trying to see if the updated codecs used by MC19 help your issue.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2013, 04:31:33 pm »

Thanks for the reply mojave. I am probably not using the latest version since I have had my server for a few months and never updated anything. If I do that latest update, will I need to re config anything since it still is version 18? I will check to see if I am running that version and if I am not, then I will update so I have the latest version. Hopefully that will do the trick. I am just nervous about doing an upgrade upgrade to MC19. Thanks again.

mojave · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2013, 05:18:18 pm »

No, you do not need to reconfigure anything when doing the MC18 upgrade. Just download the file and run it.

Installing MC19 is an upgrade in the sense that your settings from MC18 are transfered. However, it isn't an upgrade of MC18 in the sense that you can still use MC18 just like before. It isn't like upgrading an operating system or anything.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2013, 06:34:05 pm »

OK. I thanks again. I may have time to download the newer MC18 tomorrow. Hopefully that does the trick. If not, then I will see if I can do MC19 but I am hoping that MC18 is the answer.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2013, 10:22:46 am »

So I checked my version of MC18 and it was the latest version. Then I went here
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86190.0
And clicked the link. The I just followed the instructions. It went so fast and smooth that I wasn't sure I did it right. But, it took me right away. I checked and it was the latest version. So I watched a bit of a regular DVD rip. It looked better but not as good as it did with vlc. BTW, I did bot have to go into Options>audio>audio devices. Everything played as it should. Now, do I have to pay for this upgrade at some point? I mean the download did not even say anything about an upgrade price. But now that I have done the upgrade, and it is still not as good as VLC, any more thoughts. Someone on AVS thought that my video card was not goo enough in my Baetis HT. But, if regular DVD's look great through VLC, doesn't that mean that the video card is good enough?
Thanks

MikeDuke · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2013, 10:29:22 am »

OK, when I clicked on MC19 again I got a window that does say that it is a 30 day trial. It does say purchase, restore licensee and continue. I guess I want to purchase? That would allow me to go from 18 to 19 right? Sorry if these are basic questions.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2013, 10:43:57 am »

OK. I really hate to post so many times in my own thread but now I no longer get that little pop up. It takes me right into JRiver. When I escape out and go into the normal view, I am in the section where it says JRiver media center and it says Home, download, purchase, etc... Do I just hit purchase? It says to go to the help menu. When I do that I see Buy Media center and Install license. Which one do I do?
I will say though video still looks choppy with MC19

mojave · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2013, 10:51:35 am »

Just click continue for now. You want to try it for 30 days. I think the message only pops up the first time you run MC19 with each reboot.

In MC19 under Tools > Options > Video > General Video Settings
1. Are you using Red October Standard or Red October HQ?
2. Is Hardware Accelerate turned on?
3. Is VideoClock checked?

What video card are you using or can I get that info from the Baetis website?

MikeDuke · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2013, 11:08:30 am »

I am running standard.
Hardware acc is on and so is video clock
I hope I am looking in the right place but I think my video card is Intel(R) HD Graphics. I got that by going to the device manager. If there is another way to check for it, please let me know.

mojave · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2013, 11:21:10 am »

Your thread is in no-man's land. Somehow it was posted under Older Versions and isn't even under JRiver Media Center 18 for Windows. Unless someone is only looking at new posts, they probably won't see it. I say this since I will only be checking the forum for about another 1 1/2 hours.

With the holidays, not as many users will be checking the forum. However, you may consider posting in the MC19 thread for more traffic.

I would try turning Hardware Accelerate off.

Are you using any DSP in DSP Studio? The only thing I can think of that would cause a problem there is Convolution.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2013, 11:29:53 am »

I am new to the forum and I thought this was the place to put it since it is an older version. If I messed that up, sorry. I will try and turn that off.

mojave · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2013, 04:25:17 pm »

Any success?

MikeDuke · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2013, 05:26:31 pm »

Nope. They still look poor. I am ripping another one but I don't what else I can do. I have one more that I am doing. I don't want to get to far into an iteraction I had with some one, but there may be a different way to connect the server to my TV so they look better. But I will need help for that. Thanks again for your help.

Hendrik · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2014, 04:54:41 pm »

DVD playback can suffer greatly by bad video drivers or bad driver configuration.

I recommend:
- Update Graphics Drivers to the latest version directly from the manufacturer, not through Windows Update (ie. from intel.com)
- Check the Graphics Driver control panel for any Video options, and disable any "Image Enhancements" or Image Processing options, as they tend to harm much more then they help.

For Intel cards it depends on which generation of the driver you're using, but my Intel Driver has options under "Video" for "Image Enhancement", "Color Enhancement", "Image Scaling" and "Gamut Mapping"
All of those should be turned OFF or set to "Application Controlled"

PS:
I also moved your thread into the proper board to ensure it'll be found again.

Zhillsguy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2014, 08:28:10 am »

If you are running Windows 7 make sure an Aero Desktop Theme is enabled. This caused me problems for a while.

In ROS, try different combinations of all options both on and off.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2014, 02:01:29 pm »

If you have a powerful enough computer you will want to use RO+HQ. That will allow use of madVR. Then you need to go into madVR settings and adjust to "force film" mode (or "if in doubt select Film mode" or some wording like that.)

Find a post from member "6233638" he has a link in his signature line to " how to setup MadVR".

fitbrit · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2014, 09:05:16 pm »

Hi Mike.

I was wondering why you hadn't posted here, but I saw above that you had, only in the wrong forum. I also read the other day that DVD playback can be choppy if convolution is on. I don't really know what convolution is, but if you do, and you enabled it, perhaps that might be a clue?

raym · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2014, 04:42:20 am »

I can confirm something isn't right with DVD playback. It is very choppy. The workaround for me was to enable the MS Video Decoder for ifo/DVD file types. This immediately fixes it. Maybe it has something to do with PAL discs? Lav filters work fine for all other content though...

Hendrik · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2014, 05:07:57 am »

For everyone else in the past it was resolved by simply ensuring your graphics driver isn't doing bad stuff, so check that.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2014, 09:16:05 am »

Thanks for the replies guys.
I tried a few things. When I changed it to the HQ mode, it looked even worse.
Zhilsguy
"If you are running Windows 7 make sure an Aero Desktop Theme is enabled"
I am not sure how to do that

raym (This looks the most promising)
"The workaround for me was to enable the MS Video Decoder for ifo/DVD file types"
I am not sure how to do that.

Fitbrit
"I also read the other day that DVD playback can be choppy if convolution is on"
I am not sure how to change this either.

I tried to turn off
-Hardware accelerator
-Video clock
The difference was not that great. Right now I can probably live with it. Unless I can try some new things, I may just have to live with it and see if a "stronger" server down the road will fix the issue. But I do want to thank everyone for their help and if there are other ideas out there, please let me know

.
BTW, I am using windows 7. And I freely admit ignorance to many things so I am not sure how to check if my graphics driver is doing bad stuff

Zhillsguy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2014, 10:38:19 pm »

Quote from: MikeDuke on January 09, 2014, 09:16:05 am

Zhilsguy
"If you are running Windows 7 make sure an Aero Desktop Theme is enabled"
I am not sure how to do that

More than likely you are since it is default....

An easy way to check, while playing a video, move your mouse pointer over the active program button on the task bar, if you see motion video in the thumbnail it is enabled.

If you need to change it just right click in a blank area on your desktop, choose "Personalize", and select an Aero theme (Windows 7, Architecture, Characters, etc.). Once chosen you can further customize that theme to be a solid color, other background, or whatever.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2014, 11:56:07 am »

Thanks. I will check that out just to make sure. I hope someone can explain the MS Video Decoder fix because that sounds like it could be the one.

Hendrik · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2014, 12:39:56 pm »

Like briefly mentioned before, most of the time this is caused by bad configuration in the video driver control panel.

For an Intel GPU, these steps should get you there.

1) Find "Intel HD Graphics Control Panel" in the Start Menu and run it
2) Open the "Video" section

Now the next steps depend on the version, since Intel created a completely new control panel recently.
Assuming the newest version.

3) First Screen should show options for "Standard Color Correction" and "Input Range", and an "Advanced" Tab
Make sure all settings here are set to "Application Settings", and under "Advanced", Total Color Correction should be "Off"

4) On the top it says "Video" with a small arrow next to it, click it and select "Image Enhancement"
5) Like on the previous screen, everything should be "Off" or "Application Settings", both on the Basic and Advanced Tab

6) Repeat the same process for the "Image Scaling" and "Gamut Mapping" options from the top "Video" menu
All options on these screens should also either be "Off" or "Application Settings".

I hope this helps. In older driver versions the options look quite different.
If you don't even have a "Intel HD Graphics Control Panel", I would recommend to start with updating the driver, directly from Intel.com

I have personally tried various DVDs, and everything seems to play just perfectly.
Regarding Convolution, its in the Audio DSP Settings in MC19. If you've never turned it on, then it shouldn't be a problem.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2014, 01:44:30 pm »

Thanks for the detailed instructions. So that "Intel HD Graphics Control Panel" is something I should see when I just click the start menu? When you say update the driver, do you mean my video driver? I am running Windows 7 at work as well. If I go to Device Manager I can see Display adapters. If I click on it is names it for me. If I right click it says I can update the software. If that is right, and I do update the software, would I then see that "Intel HD Graphics Control Panel" in my start menu?
I will try my best

.
Thanks for your help

Hendrik · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:24:43 pm »

In the Start Menu its probably under All Programs -> Intel.
Without knowing which kind of CPU or graphics chip you have specifically, I sadly cannot link you to a driver update directly, or I would've done that.

In the device manager, does it only say "Intel HD Graphics", without a number behind it?
Do you possible know which kind of CPU you have? The Device Manager may be able to tell you, in the "Processors" category - that will tell us which graphics chip it has, and I could get you a link to the correct driver.

You'll need to download the update software from Intel directly. Windows cannot automatically get the correct update, the one Windows installs automatically is sadly quite a bit limited.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #26 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:34:14 pm »

Thanks. I will check that out tonight. Also, if I can I will get you more info on my machine. I will list the cpu and graphics card if I can. I am at work now so I will need to check this stuff out on my machine at home. Hopefully I won't have to download anything.

glynor · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:46:22 pm »

Yeah, the drivers you get by doing the built-in "check for updates" in the Device Manager are effectively useless. Bare minimum functionality, in most cases.

If that's all you have, you almost certainly need a driver update from Intel.

They have a driver checker thingy, though I've had trouble with it in the past.

The main issue is that Intel has discontinued driver support for their first-gen Intel HD Graphics chips, and you need a (still working) but older version for those. Basically all the newer ones than the first gen ones can use the current GPU driver.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2014, 02:59:44 pm »

OK This is what I am going to do. I will get the CPU processor, type and speed.
Plus I will get the video card info
Plus I will report what it says in the processor section

MikeDuke · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2014, 07:14:13 pm »

OK Here is some more info
Processor Intel core 3-2120TCPU@2.60Ghz 2.60Ghz
8.00 GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics
under Processors
Intel core 3-2120TCPU@2.60Ghz 2.60Ghz listed 4 times

As far as the Intel thing, I did not have anything in my start menu, but if I go to Control Panel I see something called Intel Graphics and media. If I click on that another screen comes up I can do a Basic Mode, Advanced Mode, or Wizard Mode.
If I click Basic Mode I get Sections labeled Display, 3D, Media, and Options and support.
Under the Display section It is as follows:
Display-Digital Television DHC-80.3
Resolution -1920x1080
Color Depth 32 bit
Refresh rate 59p HZ
Rotation Rotate to normal
Scaling Maintain Display settings
The other options really don't apply to me.
Advanced mode adds options that I really don't think affect me. Now out of all of that, I wonder if that refresh rate of 59p Hz is the issue. It also has the following options:
23p Hz
24p Hz
59p Hz(which is where it is now)
59i Hz
60p Hz
60i Hz
I bet you it's one of the others.

The specs on my TV(Panasonic TC-P42G25) say it has a refresh rate of 600Hz. It also says it can do 24p playback. I guess maybe I have to play around with those? All I know is that when I put my Integra in 1080p/24 it looks really bad. Maybe I just need to play with those options. Anybody have any thoughts based on my specs and where everything is set?
Thanks again to everyone trying to help me out.

Hendrik · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2014, 03:13:48 am »

That CPU should have a Intel HD Graphics 2000.

Here is an up to date driver:

For Windows 7 32-bit: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=3319&DwnldID=23376
For Windows 7 64-bit: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=3319&DwnldID=23377

Which of those two you need depends which version of Windows 7 you have, 32-bit or 64-bit.
Once you have the new driver installed, you should get the new Intel Graphics control panel.

Please update the driver, and then try to follow the step by step guide to disable the video processing in my previous post.
Sadly Intel enables this stuff by default, and it hurts image quality badly.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #31 on:** January 11, 2014, 02:02:39 pm »

Thanks. So my system says
64 bit operating system.
So if I click on that link I should just be able to update the driver easily right? I mean, I don't have to un-install anything do I?

Then after that I should follow these instructions right?
In the Start Menu its probably under All Programs -> Intel.
Without knowing which kind of CPU or graphics chip you have specifically, I sadly cannot link you to a driver update directly, or I would've done that.

In the device manager, does it only say "Intel HD Graphics", without a number behind it?
Do you possible know which kind of CPU you have? The Device Manager may be able to tell you, in the "Processors" category - that will tell us which graphics chip it has, and I could get you a link to the correct driver.

You'll need to download the update software from Intel directly. Windows cannot automatically get the correct update, the one Windows installs automatically is sadly quite a bit limited.

I am only being overly careful because I don't want to screw anything up. I really have not updated drivers on a regular basis befoire.
Thanks

Hendrik · « **Reply #32 on:** January 11, 2014, 02:17:47 pm »

Just download the file from the 64-bit link and install it.
It'll ask to reboot, let it do that and afterwards check if you have the intel control panel then.

The instructions are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86201.msg592039#msg592039

Most of the settings will already be in the "Off" or "Application Settings" state, but not all.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #33 on:** January 11, 2014, 02:56:58 pm »

OK. I followed your instructions on what and how to download the driver. I followed the instructions for the install and my machine re-booted. But in my start menu I still have nothing that says Intel, and the layout when I go to it from the control panel looks exactly the same as I mentioned before. In the device manager section it says that the driver for my video card is up to date. I don't know what to do now. Maybe I should just try different settings in that Refresh Rate section because I am all out of ideas now.

Hendrik · « **Reply #34 on:** January 11, 2014, 03:18:14 pm »

Even the old control panel should have a "Video" section somewhere, or possibly called "Media"

Does it look like this? (this is a older version of the panel)

If yes, check under the "Media" option. It should have a few sub-options, make sure all are either "Off", "Override application settings" is OFF, so that it doesn't override any settings that MC would do.
In the screnshot above, in color enhancement "Override application settings" needs to be unchecked, and similar options for "Image Enhancement" and "Image Scaling" also need to be off.

I hope you find it!
And I hope it helps, not sure what else would influence DVD playback like this.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #35 on:** January 11, 2014, 04:06:18 pm »

OK. I don't have the options that you mention, For one thing, in the media section, I don't have anything that says "Orverride Application Settinga" I have the section bellow that says standard color correction and lists the Brightness etc... stuff. Then below that box I have another box that says "Total Color Correction" That is unchecked. There is nothing else for me to check or uncheck.
In my Image Enhancement section
"Noise Reduction" is at Driver Automatic settings".
"Sharpness" is at Application Settings
"Other settings" has Film mode detection checked and Adaptive Contrast Enhancement checked
In Image Scaling, nothing is checked.
That's all she wrote. I wish I saw what you have posted but I just don't.

Hendrik · « **Reply #36 on:** January 11, 2014, 04:09:53 pm »

Does "Noise Reduction" have a setting like "Off" or "Application Setting"/"Application Controlled"?
If yes, try that.

Also, uncheck "Adaptive Contrast Enhancement"

MikeDuke · « **Reply #37 on:** January 11, 2014, 04:26:30 pm »

I can uncheck Adaptive Control Enhancement
Noise reduction does not have an "off" but it does have an "application setting" It also has a "custom setting". Let me try the first two things first. Then I guess I can see what custom does if I need to.

Doing those things probably has made them look as good as I have seen them look so far. I don't know if you have any other tricks but if you don't, it's probably good enough for me. There may be a little left over but if this ends up being it, I can be happy. Like I said, it's not BR smooth but it is much better then before. I Really don't know if there is anything else to try.
I just want to really thank you. Your help was fantastic Hendrik.
P.S I guess I don't need to mess with the "custom" setting. Unless there are more tricks in there we can try.

spiggytopes · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2014, 12:03:30 am »

Just a thought here - my Intel Graphics panel is not in the start menu but bottom right in the system tray area ..... just had a look at it now.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #39 on:** January 12, 2014, 12:09:07 pm »

Good call on the system tray idea. It was there and it brought up the same panel I have been working on. I think I have it as good as it is going to be. Maybe a quick judder here or ther but It is smooth for the most part so I am satisfied. Unless there are even more options I don't know about. Thanks for the help everybody

.

MikeDuke · « **Reply #40 on:** January 29, 2014, 02:24:18 pm »

I really hate to bring this up but it seems like it did not work as well as I had hoped. A few DVD's that I have ripped looked OK but you can still see more judder then I would like. Then I played the intro to The Day After Tomorrow. WOW did that look horrible. It was not smooth at all. Almost un-watchable. But after a few seconds it seemed to settle down and get a little better. I was hoping for a constant playback viewing experience for all of my DVD's but it seems like that's not the case. When I am done, I will have about 100 total DVD's ripped and then the rest will be all BR. Hopefully I can just get over it and enjoy the fact that I have everything at my finger tips. Oh well

. It is a let down.

sirkus · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:20:26 pm »

I must say that, I'm having serious dropouts with DVDs, too. Blurays are working without problem. I use a resync of -600 ms for video and it's unusable for DVDs.
I have latest versions of all, an i7 with a recent Nvidia card.

pcstockton · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:42:53 pm »

Video is so strange.

A $60 WDTV Live can playback 1080 perfectly, without a hitch.
But a $1000 HTPC cannot.

Why is there not some kind of middle ground?

-Patrick

mwillems · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:54:07 pm »

Quote from: sirkus on January 31, 2014, 02:20:26 pm

I must say that, I'm having serious dropouts with DVDs, too. Blurays are working without problem. I use a resync of -600 ms for video and it's unusable for DVDs.
I have latest versions of all, an i7 with a recent Nvidia card.

I suspect that 600ms resync is the culprit, and that you're experiencing a completely different issue than OP is seeing. Because JRiver relies on Microsoft DVD Navigator for DVD playback, anything that introduces significant latency will break playback. See these threads:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79916.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72534.msg492756#msg492756
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84701.0

Blu rays and MKV rips of DVDs should be unaffected by the sync issue.

mojave · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:55:35 pm »

Quote from: sirkus on January 31, 2014, 02:20:26 pm

I must say that, I'm having serious dropouts with DVDs, too. Blurays are working without problem. I use a resync of -600 ms for video and it's unusable for DVDs.
I have latest versions of all, an i7 with a recent Nvidia card.

You asked the same thing back in October.

I was going to post links to the answer, but mwillems beat me to it.

sirkus · « **Reply #45 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:21:09 pm »

Oops

I didn't rember. Looks like the threads links are the answer to my problem (if it applies to DVD rip in native format (simple copy) that I use).

MikeDuke · « **Reply #46 on:** February 01, 2014, 02:46:14 pm »

Well, as I said I have given up. I will keep the regular DVD's I have on there now. It's probably about 40-50. Some are better then others. But I am buying movies that I really like again, or ones that have subtitles again or some that just don't rip at all. If that's what I have to do to do then so be it.

Hendrik · « **Reply #47 on:** March 15, 2014, 06:54:17 am »

We recently identified and fixed an issue in Media Center which could have caused the quality of DVD playback (and rips) to be less then desired. If you're still experiencing problems in playback, I recommend updating to 19.0.121 (from the top of the board), and trying again!

MikeDuke · « **Reply #48 on:** March 31, 2014, 08:33:59 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on March 15, 2014, 06:54:17 am

We recently identified and fixed an issue in Media Center which could have caused the quality of DVD playback (and rips) to be less then desired. If you're still experiencing problems in playback, I recommend updating to 19.0.121 (from the top of the board), and trying again!

Thanks. I will watch a few more regular DVD's to see how bad it still is. Again, is it hard to upgrade? I don't want to lose all the settings I already have in MC. I forget, do I have to pay for the upgrade.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88373.0
Is that the page? It looks like they are already up to 19.0.124. Is that the one I should get?
Thanks again

Hendrik · « **Reply #49 on:** March 31, 2014, 08:44:16 am »

You should not lose any settings, and if you already have any version of MC19, any other updates of MC19 are free.
If you don't have MC19 yet, you can try it for free for 30 days to see if it really improves the quality and might be worth the upgrade!

And yes, the version you linked is the one to get!

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Author Topic: problems playing standard DVD's (Read 27967 times)